I thought vinyl had better quality than regular CD’s or digital files. Vinyl is analog so its exactly how it was recorded… digital is just snapshots so it is not the full wave as it was recorded.
Analog, yes. Perfect reproduction, no. Any medium you use (in this case, a stylus, cartridge, tonearm, etc etc to the phono outs) to reproduce sound has a minimum resolution it can provide.
I’ve seen a case made to suggest that even in very, very expensive audiophile equipment, the resolution possible is lower than the 16 bits a CD gives.
Aside from anything else: hiss, pop, crack. That’s not how it was recorded, and is an unavoidable consequence of the technology.
- They degrade over time. + The music will most likely have started life as a .wav file on some producers computer.
Nope.
[ame=“Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem - Wikipedia”]Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Bandlimited.svg" class=“image”><img alt=“” src=“http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Bandlimited.svg/200px-Bandlimited.svg.png”@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/f7/Bandlimited.svg/200px-Bandlimited.svg.png[/ame]
That’s a wikipedia page with a bunch of big words that basically mean that 44.1kHz audio and up is mathematically capable of exactly reproducing any audio signal that humans can hear. Yes, I mean exactly, and I mean 44.1kHz (higher sample rates exist so you can use a shallower anti-aliasing filter, which adds less noise and creates fewer high-frequency phasing issues that most people can’t hear anyway).
There’s a bit more to it than that, but that’s the conclusion that matters.
Vinyl–on the other hand–has all the sources of noise that ell mentioned, plus the fact that it wears down every time you play it (further reducing its dynamic range), starts out with less dynamic range, loses high-frequency content quicker than low frequency content, and some other complications.
One of the other complications arrises from the RIAA EQ Curve, seen here:
Yeah, that’s 20dB added to the bass and 20dB cut off the high end. The opposite of that curve was applied to the audio before it was pressed onto the record (so when they sum, you get a basically flat curve). Apart from that assuming that the vinyl mastering engineer got it right…that means that you’re adding 20dB to the top end and taking 20dB off the bottom end right before it gets pressed to the medium…
which means your bass is 20dB closer to the noise floor than it should be, which looses dynamic range. And your treble is 20dB louder…and still can’t clip without ruining things.
So, what do you do? Turn the whole thing another 20dB down before you apply that gain. Or, you do what a lot of lazy people did and roll off the highs.
So, now, your bass is 40dB closer to the noise floor than it should be (meaning your theoretical max dynamic range from that point is probably 56dB instead of 96dB with CD audio), you’ve probably thrown away some highs…
Then you’ve got to get it back out, which basically involves a big gain stage and a low pass filter…which has to have a lot of headroom to not clip…and if whoever made your preamp bought cheap capacitors instead of good ones–like many do, including such luminaries as A&H and Pioneer–then you’re kinda getting something that’s more or less what the engineer intended…but it’s likely pretty far away from what the artist intended.
Then, if you’re using a modern Pioneer mixer, you’re going through prosumer level Cirrus Logic AD and DA converters anyway.
Compare that to spending less money on Traktor Pro, all FLAC/WAV files, and a low-end Apogee interface (with better converters than anything Pioneer has ever released) and mixing internally…it’s just objectively better (meaning “truer”) sound in a lot of ways. Based on my–admittedly limited–experience in the production/recording world, people have more or less agreed that analog audio is a waste unless you’ve got access to a 7-figure console or 5-figures worth of outboard gear and like the noise those pieces add. It’s just people on internet forums that still really debate it vehemently.
Vinyl is kinda crap. It’s a wankerish nostalgia piece for hipsters and something for “real DJs” to hold over the heads of us “fake DJs.” Even the punk and industrial fans I know have basically given it up.
It is a lot of fun to DJ with, don’t get me wrong…but for all that BS, you pay $12/record and up.
Not. Worth it.
Good thing some bright spark came up with digital vinyl emulation eh?
One thing I really like about vinyl is the fact you’ve got this physical product, sometimes I really want to buy something more than just the music itself. I want an object, something a bit more real and emotional. I’d still get a file too for general listening and for use with a dvs though.
That is true, and it’s a good point…hence the one or two pieces of vinyl I’d want to keep for sentimental reasons.
I can’t think of a practical reason to keep buying vinyl.
i love these threads…
i came from vinyl…i have no idea what to do with midi…i am still learning…
i have a crap load of vinyl you can’t get on wav or mp3…
the logic of “i have mp3s you can’t get on vinyl” doesn’t work…
How doesn’t it? Vinyl is a pain in the ass to acquire.
get a USB turntable…
I don’t understand the “I have stuff you can’t get” as a selling point. One of the things it means is that when (this is a when, unless the record is never played - and if it’s never played, what’s the point?) every copy of that record finally becomes unplayable, that’s the end of life for that tune.
It makes me sad. Recorded music should be forever.
*edit: making it clear I’m talking about recorded music, rather than a live performance
that wasn’t the point…
it’s called backwards compatible…
if i have vinyl then maybe i should give myself the option to use it…
nice comment…
I find this post hilarious.
It’s also a matter of your collection. If someone has some solid record shops still around, and can dig there… then I find that sometimes lead to some really nasty sampling material to throw into a middle of a set. Think DJ Shadow for one, the ultimate grand-master of digging.
With digital, and I solely buy MP3’s online for the most part now, it’s the same kind of deal that people have been saying. If you have 100 GB of music, are you really going to play all of it?
It just depends on how you personally want to play it. Playing straight vinyl is HARD to learn. It’s not just pick up, press sync, and you’re halfway there. I’m learning on it myself at the moment, really from ground zero, and it’s making me appreciate the DJ’s who work off straight vinyl even more.
Not that it’s something I particularly want to do forever, but know that I’ve put the time in to get to that point is a goal I’m striving for. There are also a few places that are pretty much vinyl only around where I am, and so in not learning, I’m only limiting myself.
Vinyl is much more expensive. It’s more difficult to learn on. But it also brings a ton of respect, not only in the electronic dance music community, but also in other genre’s as well. Punk/Industrial and Hip-Hop also are still pretty much hardcore vinyl, and I’ve had discussions with DJ’s in those genres who still to this day don’t touch anything digital. A lot of them won’t even touch Serato or any other DVS.
Vinyl isn’t the future, it’s the past and present. But it’s always solid to know the roots, and from people just getting into the game, it brings a lot more respect from those whom have been in it for awhile. Is digital the way to go in the future? Hell yes. Who wants to lug around 1200’s and crates of vinyl everywhere they go? Not me.
Another thing for myself personally, I have a few friends who all have decks set up. A couple with Serato, one with Torq, and one with both Serato and Traktor. All of them hooked up with various turntables (Mostly Technics, but one guy has Numarks and another Stantons). I want to be able to take my computer (and serato box if I need to) and just hook in. It’s the standard of equipment myself and my friends have taken upon us to gather, because it’s one of the standards of clubs.
TT setups are still cheaper than CDJ setups. Are CDJ’s a happy medium between vinyl and controller setups? I’d like to think so. But they are also fucking expensive as hell.
If you just want to get into it, and play the music, then that’s no issue. Eh. I’m rambling on now. But I think you get the picture. It’s personal preference really, but there is something about at least learning and knowing it, then moving on if you so choose, that speaks to at least myself on a personal level.
you’re…welcome?
I don’t really get the digging thing.
Remember that whitelabel I mentioned? Yeah…just found it on a blog. It’s not a vinyl rip either…it actually sounds decent. IHNFC if it’s authorized or just some guy putting it on his blog, but it’s out there.
There’s a lot of music available online…and the labels I’ve contacted are usually more than happy to point you somewhere you can buy digital stuff from their back catalog if you want…it costs them almost nothing and nets them a profit. Just because you buy only from Beatport doesn’t mean you can’t do the same type of digging. (not aimed at anyone…“you” sounds better in this paragraph than “one”)
I should mention that I did learn on vinyl…so that might be shaping my opinion. I’ve had that experience, and a lot of people haven’t. But I don’t think it’s necessary unless you just want to do it. Yeah…people sometimes wank about the guys still spinning vinyl. I’m guilty of that myself at times. But I honestly think it’s all just wanking.
If you want to do it, do it. But it’s a lot of money and a lot of time so you can feel special. I honestly can’t think of a corollary in any other art form….
There are reasons to shoot medium format film or a field camera…they can produce pictures that just aren’t possible with digital cameras. For some people, that’s worth dealing with sheet film, 20-pound camera bodies, and dark room chemicals. A digital rendering will never have the texture of oil paint on canvas. A sampled guitar will never sound like Clapton’s 1936 Martin Dreadnaught, and no software amp model will ever respond like a Dumble. And I think it’s just plain more fun to drive a manual transmission than an automatic, and it gives better control of the car.
And I can see vinyl for the turntablists, just like I can see midifighters for the controllerists. I don’t actually like either art form all that much…most of the time, they both sound like noise to me. But I get it.
For a normal DJ…it doesn’t seem to make sense to spend more money just to get worse sound quality and some sense of ‘holier than thou’-ness.
If you want to do it because you think it’ll be fun…cool. It is fun. But it’s neither better nor necessary.
For me crate digging is nothing to do with buying anything recent, it’s about turning up the random little gems of stuff no has heard or sampled before
You’re right when you say that “There’s a lot of music available online”, but by no means is all of it, and it’s the weird and the wonderful that I can cut original sample from, or that no one has ever heard before as it was released on a tiny label in the 1960’s that only released to 3 towns that I like trying to find.
[ame=“Cool Hunting Video: Chances With Wolves”]Chances With Wolves on Vimeo[/ame]
Nicely said. Can I paraphrase?
Do it if you want to. Understand that it’s more expensive, and more time-consuming. Don’t buy into the “real DJs spin vinyl exclusively” rubbish.
I’ve emphasised the key word, here. IF you have vinyl (and it’s vinyl you want to DJ with) that you cannot get a decent digital file for, you’ll have to learn to DJ with turntables.
If one was just starting? I’d say don’t bother …
You could always rip it?
I’m pro vinyl, I think it’s fun. 