Should i keep my S4 or move to main DVS system. What next?

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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Should i keep my S4 or move to main DVS system. What next?

As of now i own a traktor kontrol s4 with scratch upgrade using 2 numark cdx’s through timecode. Lately ive been doing most of my mixing manual through the cdx’s and am love with these turntables pretty much rarely using my cue points and only once in a while using the effects since im mostly a hiphop dj and the effects seem to compliment dubstep,electro or house best. Im left with my turntables and a 20" mixer which end up being a big setup to lug around as a mobile dj. so now im in the dilemma should i sell the s4 and buy a standard digital mixer(thinking ddm400), an audio 6, and a kontrol x1 so i can save space and get rid of the things i dont use. I feel like this might be a cleaner setup for me being a hip hop dj and be an easier set up. I can buy this new setup for $700 and sell my s4 for 900 since it has flight case. Just curious what your guys oppinions are on this as a hiphop dj should i go for a regular mixer with timecode setup or should i just keep the s4 because it has benefits that im not utitlizing. What are the benefits of both systems and whats your oppinion? thanks and sorry this post is a little all over the place

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How many channels do you want to control? If you only want 2 channels then don’t bother with a ddm800. Just use a quality 2 channel and get an audio 4 not 6. Putting less money into sound card and more into mixer is a better idea imo.

I use a xone 42 but I hear the 22’s are really good. Good price for an amazing mixer. It sounds like you are happy with the way your sets sound now so don’t worry about “under utilizing” an S4. For a clean set up get a 2 TT+10" mixer coffin with a built in laptop shelf and thats about as clean of a set up you can imagine.

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well i would get the audio 6 just cause it come with the traktor scratch duo 2. can you use sample decks and scratch duo 2 with an audio 4? sorry kind of noob on the specs here. and are you using any controller for cues and effects with your setup ( x1, midifighter, etc?)

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Well, in your situation…

The Scratch Duo 2 would probably be the best buy as far as sound card/software goes after you sell the S4.

If your using the turntables for controlling the decks, you dont use effects very often at all, and you dont mind having to press the “hotcue” button on the X1 to access the hotcues when you rarely use them, I would then recommend just that, an X1.

It would be perfect for everything you need to control, and there is a really good sample deck mapping that was done by a forum member (Padi).

That puts you at $550.

As for the mixer.

If you want to mix two channels at a time, and also have an input for your sample decks if you use them…

Most 2 channels mixers have a 3rd aux input, either in addition to the mic, or having the ability to switch the mic input to a line input.

Also, most two channel mixers have phono inputs (and many have a simple switch to change this to line as well) and a separate set of line inputs for each channel.

Meaning, you can connect turntables to the phono inputs, put the switch for the phono input on “line” when using timecode control, and put the switch on “phono” when using analogue vinyl. Allowing you to easily connect a set of CDJ’s to the line inputs, and switch over between cdj, and TT and the flip of a toggle. You could then have your soundcard output for the sample decks go into the Aux input, and on the mixer surface you would have access to all three channels of audio, with the X1 and TT’s giving you control over the software…

Unless you plan on playing 4 “decks” of audio WITH sample decks routes to an aux channel, then I really dont see the need for 4 channels, especially if its for your house/bedroom setup, catering to your equipment and the way you play.

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This all helped so much thank you! i know you went into depth on a mixer but any idea of mixers that would be good for this? the only reason i meantioned ddm4000 is cause someone on craiglist is selling for 175 and the reviews on it are great. what are the advantages of analog vs digital mixers in this situation also? thanks again for pretty much that essay you wrote above again ha gonna help me alot

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Well, as far as the mixer goes, as long as you use it properly, if you are using it in your room, and your not spending thousands of dollars on studio monitors, and playing lossless audio, you will not notice a difference between analogue and digital.

Really it seems your biggest criteria is price…

If you can get the DDM4k for that price, I find it really hard to recommend anything else.

I actually own a DDM4k, and I really like it all around, its a great mixer, and it will work very well for your needs, it might end of having a lot of features you dont use, but the features you will use are going to work really well, and for that price, I would go for it.

The only real reason I was recommending a 2 channel mixer was the size consideration, you could probably get away with it, and would save a lot of real estate.

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Honestly it sounds like you’d most benefit from a more traditional setup. I’d look into upgrading down the line into one of the nicer mixers on the market, making that a target goal so to speak. As much as the DDM4k works well, I honestly think getting one of the higher end jobs that’s already traktor certified may be the thing to do.

That’s just my two cents.

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And if he gets a Traktor Scratch certified mixer, if he ever wants to go play out somewhere he has to take the mixer with him, and find a place for it on the stage, whereas with a separate audio card, you can play on any setup with two players to stick your timecode into, and two channels on a mixer to route your sound card to, and some spot to jam the X1.

Not to mention the cost savings.

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yeah that was another reason for thinking of switching. i went to dj a gig 2 weeks ago and it was at a nightclub and the manager got pissed at me when i moved around his mixer and his techs to put my s4 down in the booth. Also most places use serato but im deff sticking with traktor but a quick sound card move shouldnt make them too upset haha. Also i know you kind of answered it above but not totally sure on the answer but if i have a 2 deck mixer can i just have the sampe decks be setup to the faders on one of those 2 decks or wud i have to use another input n such like you.
Also the specific ddm4000 sold so ill keep searching for the right mixer.
Besides that thank you guys so much for the input it all helps and please keep it coming.

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On a “two channel” mixer, the sample decks would run through an “aux” or mic channel, witch usually has a gain knob, with either a single, or two band EQ.

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To the OP; sounds like you were in the position I was in several months ago.

I went for TSPro2 because I wanted 3 decks and the 4 for samples. Duo should do you fine though. You wont be able to use more than 2 decks though, but you could toggle the deck style normal/sample for a bit of fun.

As far as mixers go. Dont skimp. If your budget allows it i’d recommend shelling out for either an allen & heath / ecler / urei / a good vestax.

Seeing as youre a hip hop dj you might wanna look out for scratch mixers, theyre rather expensive. Thats all down to the crossfader though. You could buy a shitty numark and slap an innofader in it thats worth more than the mixer. But i’d recommend you get a decent 2 channel then save up for the innofader and fit it yourself.

My personal preference is ecler, ive heard bad things about the xone22. You should check out the mixers section in djforums.com. Do a search, theres loads of useful info on there that’ll help you decide.

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Ok perfect, thanks so much exokinetic! you helped a ton with my decision!

Please also if anyone else is reading this post please give your oppinion to this situation, the more input the better for me because i still havent chosen what im going to do for sure.

Any more opinions on the pros or cons on what i should do?

thanks

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Sorry Just missed your post after i posted mine! thanks so much for the input ill check out what you said forsure, I think im going to go with just a standard 2 channel mixer like that.
Also do you know with an analog mixer if you move the high’s nob or the faders for example is there anyway for that to show up on the screen like the s4 does or is that specificly for midi/digital mixers.

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That is how a midi-mixer works.

Think of it like this…

In you S4, there is NO AUDIO at all running through the “mixing” surface.

There is ONE audio signal, coming from your laptop, going down the usb cable, to the sound-card in your S4, and then DIRECTLY out the output in the back of your S4.

Everything that happens to the music happens INSIDE your laptop. The S4 is just a very nice controller for that software.

Now lets talk about using an external mixer.

You are now sending MULTIPLE audio sources out of Traktor.

SO, to boil it down, Traktor is acting like a whole bunch of CDJ’s, giving you control over the individual audio sources.

In the example where you are mixing two decks:

You now have TWO audio signals coming from your laptop.

One for each deck.

Your MIDI CONTROLLER, or in your case the timecode player (weather its a cdj, or a TT) is telling traktor what to do with those two audio signals…

…make then faster/slower, start/stop, jump to cue points, etc…

Soooo, all of this will be replicated on your screen.

If you move the pitch fader on your controller device, the pitch fader in traktor moves to reflect the fact that you are controlling that aspect of the software with your controller.

Now we get to MIXING.

Ok, so you have an actual, in the flesh, mixer (analogue or digital does not matter, that only refers to how the mixer handles the audio going through it).

You have now changed the output routing in Traktor from “Internal” (like in you S4 example) to “External”, because Traktor is no longer mixing the audio sources together.

This is in essence why the actions you make on your mixer will not be reflected on screen (and those controls will not even be on your traktor display, because you are not using the mixing controls in Traktor, you are using the controls on your mixer).

So, now you are sending Deck A out of one output of your sound card, and Deck B out of a second output of your sound card.

Deck A is going into input 1 of a 2 channel mixer, and Deck B is going into input 2 of the same mixer.

Now your using the mixing surface of the mixer just like you would be used too on your S4, except that all the changes you are making to the audio are happing inside the mixer, not inside Traktor.

If you want to control the various effects inside of traktor, or cue points etc. (and you dont already have a MIDI controller for controlling the decks) you are going to need some kind of secondary MIDI controller (I love my X1)… (I personally avoid using a specific mixers midi for traktor control, as that means you absolutely have to have that mixer with you to have those controls)

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Thank you, now onto my mixer choices

thanks so much for the help for a noob over here makes much more sense now and i think ive made my decision to go towards standard setup, only problem is i thought my s4 would have a bunch of nibbles by now up for sale but put it on djtt with flight case and scratch upgrade and no one seems to interested idk why, probably just takes time. But in the mean time im in the market for a new mixer and want you guys oppinions below im going to list my options with the price that i could either get them off craigslist or ebay, looking to spend under $300 but i dont know if that will happen, let me know which you think is best.

Rane ttm56- $400

Urei 1601s-$350

Mackie d2-$325

Pioneer djm400-$375

Vestax pmc06-$200

Xone 2:02 w/flight case- $350

Xone 32- only $150 but seems too good to be true

Behringer ddm4000 w/innofader - $375

Vestax pmc 08 pro- $400

Any detail on these mixers would be awesome so many options so hard to make the choice!

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Unfortunately now your in my boat.

I currently own a DDM4000 for one reason… price. Its what I could afford when I got it.

I learned afterwards how badass it was… oddly enough.

I am now looking for my new perfect mixer…

I am torn completely.

It is going to be for me to practice on basically, that is going to be its purpose. I am not going to bring it with me to shows, they are going to have their own mixer in the DJ booth, and I have gotten used to using that… whatever it is.

Because of this decision I use mixer effects very sparingly, and really dont weigh much of my decision on that, as I use the effects inside Traktor, to allow flexibility…

So now this brings me to general build quality…

The top popular choices are going to be(in no particular order):

Allen & Heath (Xone)

Pioneer

Rane

Ecler

Urei

Vestax

I really wouldnt get a mixer from any other brand (save something obscure read expensive/hard to find like Formula Sound or something like that) if build quality was one of my main considerations (it is)…

And that brings us to features…

You are going to be able to find a mixer from all of those manufacturers with the features you desire, so that doesnt really narrow it down…

And now were at subjective sound quality… How an individual mixer “sounds” as compared to other mixers, when playing the same audio.

This is something that is pretty controversial, and everyone has a different opinion (probably because everyone has a different idea of what sounds “right”)

As I have generally found through my travels…

The likes of Vestax and Rane seem to geared towards the turntablist/hip hop sound.

Pioneer has a very precise, some call “dry” sound. Definitely clean, and completely the standard “sound” of the DJ booth, the world over.

The likes of Allen & Heath and to a certain extent ecler seem to more “rounded”, “musical”, or “warm” sounding, suited very well to the more melodic electronic genres i.e. trance, house, etc…

Sooooo taking all that into consideration…

I have no idea.

For a while I have been pretty well dead set on the Ecler Nuo 2.0, before that I was drooling over the Xone:22.

My friends house has a DJM400 that has been absolutely RAGED on for about 3 years, and it is SOLID. For all the hate I have given pioneer, using the DJM400 for the past few months… it has really grown on me in a big way.

So I dont know anymore…

…hope that helps?

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Got a Mixer!

You helped a ton dont worry! I actually just purchased a vestax pmc-08 pro which was djbooth.net’s best mixer review receiving a 10/10 and scratch worx was also in love giving it a 95% rating. The retail is like 800-900 for the mixer but i scored it used for $324(SCORE!), im so happy with the deal so now im onto what i need with my mixer.

Ill be using the pmc-08 mixer, 2 numark cdxs, mostlikely audio 6 with scratch duo 2, and then some sort of midi controller.

I was set on the kontrol x1, but now theyre doing another shipment of midi fighters so that got me interested over there, and also the novation dicers are cheap and get the job done so that could also work.

Any suggestions where to go now i need something mostly for cue points and loops, and once in a while effects and samples from the sample deck. Even though if i got the midi fighter i think i would use effects more often but yeah any idea where i should go?

Might start a new thread for this question but thank you so much for the original help thus far!

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In my best personal opinion?

Get the X1.

You can change the bottom section of the X1 in your controller manager (for its MIDI mode) so that it sends the exact same notes as a MIDI fighter.

SO at any point using your X1, press Shift + Hotcue to go into MIDI mode…

(The X1 comunicates with Traktor with NHL, an NI propriety communication language, but it can also send MIDI, and Traktor will read that as well. NHL just has MUCH higher resolution, and better integration with traktor)

…and boom, a MIDI fighter for witch you can use ANY of the MIDI fighter mappings is right at your fingertips.

(obviously the X1 buttons are not arcade buttons, but you really have to ask if those arcade buttons ALONE are worth the extra $$$)

And then, I really cant see anyone recommending dicers over an X1 to a Traktor user that does not use turnrables.

And on top of all that, I absolutely adore my X1. It has been my faithful companion, and the best piece of DJ equipment I have ever purchased, or laid fingers on.

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Yeah i was thinking the same thing! but in defense to the dicers i am pretty much using turntables and am focusing on being more of scratch hip hop dj so the dicers seem to be my category.

but your right the X1 makes more sense, i just dont know where exactly i would place it at a gig

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Either the outside of the CDX’s left or right, or in between the mixer and one of the CDX’s left or right.

Thats what most people do, but its small and light, and it has a hole in the back specifically for the spindle of a TT, so there are a million ways you can mount it if you wanted to get creative.

I would recommend the X1 case/stand, I have one, it works really well.