For awhile now i’ve been trying to work out how to sync vocals to my Trance mixes. Now I know that I have to time stretch the vocals so I use MixMeister BPM Analyzer to find the tempo and then use wavelab 6 to time stretch the vocals. once the wav file is time stretched I drop the file onto ableton live 8 it setups the tempo. But when I play it to other people I know who are more musically trained they say its out of time. Because im unsure of where the vocals should go "are the vocals supposed to land on every beat.
I did read in a book that the best way of getting vocals to sync or fit to your music is to sample every phase for example “I’m walking in the air” would be
“I’m” “Walking” “in” “the” “Air” I did try this single shot idea and retrigger them with redrum in reason but it didn’t feel natural it sounded more like an robot which is ok for electro songs.
One of my friends told me to use Melodyne for vocals and rewire it to ableton live 8 which I did but again I don’t seem to be able to workout how to get the vocals into perfect time. I’m ok getting samples and sound into perfect pitch. I was thinking of trying to use cakewalk sonar maybe, my system cannot use Pro tools and I don’t know if I can get logic pro 9 for PC.
If I place warp marks on every phase of a vocal in live will it be in time…?
I did try to use DJ software to drop the whole acapella onto a virtual DJ Turntable and then place my original music along side the acapella, but again no luck so I’m stuck I don’t know where im going work
regarding leaving or cutting.. what works for one acapella, may not work for another! you’re just going to have to find the ‘groove’ on a track by track basis.
[quote=“josh@firestorm, post:8, topic:21484, username:josh_firestorm”]
regarding leaving or cutting.. what works for one acapella, may not work for another! you’re just going to have to find the ‘groove’ on a track by track basis.
[/quote]I know in live that you can extract the groove from an audio sample. So I was wondering if I extract the groove from the vocal and then use that template on my original music. I dont think the sing is singing to a set time because it live the vocals land on some beats and miss other beats.
[quote=“derschaich, post:7, topic:21484, username:derschaich”]
depends on the source of the acapella
if you know that it is spot on the BMP of the corresponding track, you can use it just in one piece (if you keep the tempo)
if the track tempo and the vocal tempo are too far off, you better just use bits of the acapella and leave the vocal-tempo as set.
[/quote]I was told by another producer to use Fruityloops and cut up various pieces of the acapella and then put the samples back into live ready to rewire reason to the vocals.
I’m unsure how to get the vocals in time, If the vocals land on every beat or you can loop the vocals like a drumloop does this mean there in time…?
last night I tried cutting up the vocals into single shots, and then using the redrum in reason 4.0 but it sounds more robotic. and the acapella im using is for an Electro song that im working on.
Problem I have is theres lead & two backing vocals which should start together. but for a number of years I have never used vocals before, on my releases because I produce house,trance,lounge and dance music.
Most of the vocals have been recorded live over the top of my music, so I’ve never learn’t how to get vocals in time or understand the process.
The understanding I have is every vocal has to land on a beat, I think thats right unsure. I just need some help. Once ive completed my remix I’ll upload to the forums. Its a pain because ive done some really cool electro music ready for the vocals.
The way I normally do my vocals is cut a piece out of the full acapella with an audio editor then drop it into Live 8.0 and hopefully its finds the right tempo so I can move up or down in tempo.
I’m unsure if thats right, so I need someone who knows more about vocal timing. I have included an example is this in time see mp3 below. Copy & paste link.
So, here’s my perspective of mixing a capellas and beats coming from over a decade of DJing and a professional studio audio engineer.
The things about taking vocals from one track and putting them to another. Vocals don’t always land right on the beat. In fact on a lot of songs, if they do it will sound really odd, especially if it is a track that people already know and have heard. Acoustical sound that has to be played/sung by a human into a microphone to a rhythm will always have a swing to it. When I see people warping vocals like that it makes me cringe as I’m routinely taking hours tracking and editing vocals for final mixes. Those vocals were already painstakingly put in time a certain way by an artist, vocal producer, and someone like myself by the time it reaches your hands. They are in time with a tempo, there should be no need to edit vocals that intricately to line it up with your track.
You really kinda gotta know your a capella and just feel it in my opinion with putting vocals over a track. The first words of a section may start on beat, but there can be bars that’s purposely sung of of the beat to give the vocals a certain swing.
Here’s my general process for timing an a capella to a track as a dj, not in engineering mode. This process is for prerecorded, edited, and mixed vocals so should be virtually no engineering in it.
If I have the original track the a capella came off of (if it did), figure out the tempo of that.
Apply that tempo to the a capella with a beatmarker right on the first vocal note.
Figure out where you want the vocals to come in on the track
Now here’s the easy, but hard part… Mix the tracks… Close your eyes, put the track on, have the vocal cued, when it hits the spot you want it at, play the a capella and just listen with your hand on the pitch control and adjust by what you hear. Key here is: Don’t look at your computer!!! Mix it by ear! Your brain will know where it should be!
Run it as many times as you need to make it sound the way that feels right, now the one that looks right. Trust me, vocal waveforms with not line up the way they look unless you really know what you’re looking at.
Set up warp markers or multiple beatmarkers if you need to, but use them sparingly. As a rule of thumb I never use beatmarkers any closer then 8-12 bars from each other. If I have to do that, then there’s something going on there.
Honestly I don’t know what you did with that little sample I just downloaded, but if you’re willing to send me the vocal and the track, then I’m willing to help you out with this. Let me know.
[quote=“TreTuna, post:14, topic:21484, username:TreTuna”]
So, here’s my perspective of mixing a capellas and beats coming from over a decade of DJing and a professional studio audio engineer.
The things about taking vocals from one track and putting them to another. Vocals don’t always land right on the beat. In fact on a lot of songs, if they do it will sound really odd, especially if it is a track that people already know and have heard. Acoustical sound that has to be played/sung by a human into a microphone to a rhythm will always have a swing to it. When I see people warping vocals like that it makes me cringe as I’m routinely taking hours tracking and editing vocals for final mixes. Those vocals were already painstakingly put in time a certain way by an artist, vocal producer, and someone like myself by the time it reaches your hands. They are in time with a tempo, there should be no need to edit vocals that intricately to line it up with your track.
You really kinda gotta know your a capella and just feel it in my opinion with putting vocals over a track. The first words of a section may start on beat, but there can be bars that’s purposely sung of of the beat to give the vocals a certain swing.
Here’s my general process for timing an a capella to a track as a dj, not in engineering mode. This process is for prerecorded, edited, and mixed vocals so should be virtually no engineering in it.
If I have the original track the a capella came off of (if it did), figure out the tempo of that.
Apply that tempo to the a capella with a beatmarker right on the first vocal note.
Figure out where you want the vocals to come in on the track
Now here’s the easy, but hard part… Mix the tracks… Close your eyes, put the track on, have the vocal cued, when it hits the spot you want it at, play the a capella and just listen with your hand on the pitch control and adjust by what you hear. Key here is: Don’t look at your computer!!! Mix it by ear! Your brain will know where it should be!
Run it as many times as you need to make it sound the way that feels right, now the one that looks right. Trust me, vocal waveforms with not line up the way they look unless you really know what you’re looking at.
Set up warp markers or multiple beatmarkers if you need to, but use them sparingly. As a rule of thumb I never use beatmarkers any closer then 8-12 bars from each other. If I have to do that, then there’s something going on there.
Honestly I don’t know what you did with that little sample I just downloaded, but if you’re willing to send me the vocal and the track, then I’m willing to help you out with this. Let me know.
[/quote]Thank you for the amazing info Tretuna
[quote=“TreTuna, post:16, topic:21484, username:TreTuna”]
Anytime.
[/quote]Thank you everybody once I done a good mixdown I’ll post it up on the forum for you all to checkout. Tre Tuna helped out great and the youtube video about Live helped alot.
I turned off warp and now all the acapella’s start at the right time. Because once warp was on it made some of the acapella’s the wrong size.
I’m learning… I think I’ll have to stop letting the software control me and use my ears more.
^^ what tretuna said. Good stuff. Key is using your ears not your waveforms. I used to do this with vinyl only, and the best way was to get a track where you had the acapella and the regular track on the same record. Beatmatch everything using the regular track, paying close attention to where the vocal comes in, then use the acapella track and throw in the vocal at the right spot. No warping necessary unless you really want your vocalist to sound like a deranged robot.
What happens if you only have an acapella but no ref track to cut the vocals to.
Is it best to just cut the vocals up without time stretching them, and then try and feel the groove of the vocals without warping or time stretching them.
for example if I have a full acapella, cut a little vocal hook out of it then loop a standard 4 to the floor beat and try and match the feel of the vocals to the beat without warp or time stretching. would that work or do I need to Time stretching the vocals.
[quote=“djproben, post:18, topic:21484, username:djproben”]
^^ what tretuna said. Good stuff. Key is using your ears not your waveforms. I used to do this with vinyl only, and the best way was to get a track where you had the acapella and the regular track on the same record. Beatmatch everything using the regular track, paying close attention to where the vocal comes in, then use the acapella track and throw in the vocal at the right spot. No warping necessary unless you really want your vocalist to sound like a deranged robot.
[/quote]Yes the Tre Tuna and Youtube video help out alot.
