Whats your definition of a live act ?

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
1

Whats your definition of a live act ?

With djing and live acts becomming ever closer and closer, i personally think the lines between a live act and a dj act are starting to get a little blurry - that said to some people the line is as clear as daylight, so i am interested in hear the opinions of different people here.

What is your definition of a live act?

Theres nothing stopping anyone from using both dj techniques and live music techniques at the same time as we started talking a little bit about the advantages of this approach in this thread here: Playing your own music live among other places.

Also theres alot of artists out there playing who dont have enough of their own material to rock a club all night and thus are also mixing other people material into their own sets and this is promoted as being a live act. When does one stop becomming a live act and starts to become a dj act and vice versa ?

Currently for instance i have 2 channels in Traktor playing other peoples tracks then i have another 3 channels in Ableton which contain a mixture of my own material and some small loops i have cut out of tracks. Also I have been working on adding a softsynth to this setup, so given all this parts of my mixes are what could be considered very much live. While other parts are leaning more towards the dj paradime just with alot more fancy tricks. So what would you define this act as ? Live or not ?

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Why doesn’t DJing count as live? For me personally, a DJ is performing as well.
Controllerism blurs the line between DJing and ‘making’ music anyway.
Just my .02$ though.

3

imo live act was/is widely defined by big events where behind the artist’s name is clearly stated whether it is DJ set or live act. From those events we got used to that live act is something purely done from performer’s own music material, whereas when they use other tracks into mix it is DJ set from now on.

However, this definition can be easily trashed away today, or in the near future, as you mentioned Bento (sort of), we are curently the guys who are breaking the rules.

4

I think a DJ is someone who provides a programme of pre-recorded music.

A live performer is someone who generates arrangements of music on the fly with the potential for the arrangement to be improvised (the live part).

A live act is a performer who generates music on the fly with the intention of being the centre of attention (the acting part).

There’s no reason why a DJ can’t be a live performer or a live act.

5

Personally, I think the line is a lot clearer.

Bento, in my opinion, you’re still DJing. You’re remixing, possibling doing mashups, but it’s still DJing. You are mixing pre-recorded music to provide a non-stop mix.

Moldover, while mangling, changing, and remixing songs live, in my opinion, is still DJing. He is using pre-recorded loops and beats to layer to provide a mix.

Tom Cosm is where this gets a little blurry for me. He is using loops and beats he produced, but he is creating new songs in a live setting. I would still put this as DJing, as it is still all pre-recorded, however.

Now, in the scene I run in (Goth/Industrial), a lot of the bands use almost exclusively pre-recorded music as well. I, personally, don’t consider them live performances either. I consider them producers/DJs who are providing a pre-recorded, minimally live created experience.

For me, a live performance is one where nothing (or, at least a very minimal amount) is pre-recorded. That doesn’t mean no one is using computers, but people can still play keyboards, bang on drum machines, play guitars, etc. etc. etc.. This, I understand, is a very stringent standard, however I think that they are very different abilities, skills, and should be recognized as such.

Now, this is not to say that DJing is less than a live band. It is just to say that they are, to me, very different, and I don’t think that difference should be discounted. :slight_smile:

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As far as I see it there is live production and performance. People get so hyped up over the fact that it is a live performance but for me this isn’t such a big deal. I don’t mean to offend anyone in a band, but hearing someone perform live is an amazing feat but it lacks the creativity that a live production has. Live production is much closer to digital mixing than it is to most bands. I guess I don’t understand why people are so impressed with a live performance (bands) but ascribe less skill to a dj because they aren’t making music. A mix has an overall quality and feel that is more than the sum of its parts (hopefully) and requires creativity and improvisation.

Ed. Offtopic hijack: Have decided to change my name from DJ NikNak to OscILLation FIXation, and drop the DJ what do you think?

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I know you don’t mean to offend, and I’m not, but that’s just a shocking statement to me, one that I can’t possibly agree with.

And I like the flow of the new name, but it’s long, and a mouthful. I still think DJ names should be catchy and quick. Though, it is only 2 syllables shorter than mine… Maybe Oscill8:Fix8

or something shorter. It’s more the visual length, I think.

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Yea thanks, for the suggestion I really like that and will play around with the name a bit more on that vein.

If I am being ignorant as far as bands go let me know, the type of band I am talking about are the ones that basically play songs off their album/s in a varied order, is this what you mean? Is there something I am missing?

Ed. what about OSCill8:FIX8 or oscILL8:fix8? I still think I like yours better (even thopugh I like ym second suggestion here I think the f in fix should be capitalized for clarity, but I kinda want to make the capitalization of the name oscillate.

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I don’t think you’re being ignorant. I just think it takes a lot more ability to play music live on instruments, even if you are playing static songs. The room for error is very high, and very noticeable. I can fuck up DJing and no one would ever know.

Keep in mind I’m talking about people playing instruments, not just hitting play on their iPod and letting the backing tracks do all the work.

I like FIX8:OSCill8, personally. I think the rhythm of it just flows really smooth.

10

Yea that one is the best so far. would the mods allow me to further hijack this thread and post the text for an email that I am gong to send to try and get a gig on campus? /crossfingers

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No, please start a new thread.

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ok will do.

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Back on topic…

It’s not perfect, but i think along the lines of this:

If you are able to stop what you are doing and the music continues you are not playing live.

I put effort into mixing at parties, but am also able to let a tune play while chatting to a foxy girl :wink: .. when I play the drums, if i stop/pause/anything the whole thing is screwed.

As i say, it’s not perfect but i think the analogy is clear enough :slight_smile:

edit: To add.. i have played live electronically before, i personally built the entire song/set from it’s brickwork pieces rather than rely on any kind of arrangement. If i were to stop doing stuff here, then everything just loops indefinitely. When I DJ, at least the rest of the song plays (hell, I could get Traktor to auto-mix a set while i get wrecked :wink:)

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I agree with your definition. Lets compare with Live Bands and Playback Bands:

If the singer just stop singing, because he fallled out the stage or something, a playback band will never be able to fake the live presentation because the singer will not be singing anymore, but his voice would be still there.

But if the singer of a Live Band fall out the stage, the sound of his voice will stop, and still the rest of the band can “improvise” something until the singer comes back to the stage.

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This means Daft Punk and the Chemical Brothers are DJing. Something to remember next time you fork over $50 for tickets. :slight_smile:

Personally I think the notion of live playing – largely because of, appropriately enough, programs like Ableton Live – has become a fuzzy-edged phenomenon. I know when something is at either extreme, but there’s a growing middle ground. I believe that this is basically a late-20th Century argument that is becoming increasingly irrelevant as “regular” musicians become more immersed in digital technology and “traditional” DJs increasingly incorporate options that allow for live remixing – and as audiences grow less concerned about distinctions and more interested in having a unique experience.

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I think this holds only if you don’t include a turntable in your definition of instruments, and while most DJs dont’ really use it as an instrument, watching one Z Trip show should make anyone realize that this is a guy playing an instrument with no room for error.

It requires another distinction that I find a lot of the public fails to make (and conveniently ignores when criticizing “DJs vs. musicians”: the difference between DJ and turntablist. A DJ plays tracks, however smoothly or disjointedly. A turntablist effectively uses a turntable (or CDJ, or PC, or whatever) as an instrument. I by no means consider myself a musician for this very reason.

In any case, these definitions are growing increasingly idiosyncratic and fictive as time goes on. As they should.

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So if I’m using a keyboard to play notes that are samples that were recorded by someone else 10 years ago, and I stop doing it and the music stops, then it’s live? So the difference for you isn’t the source but the fact that it’s sequenced or recorded?

If I’m Laurie Anderson and I’m using a harmonizer to repitch my voice over three separate mics so that I can essentially provide my own background vocals, but I stop singing and the background vocals stop, then I’m not performing live?

Technology has blurred the distinctions to the point where the distinctions are arbitrary, irrelevant, and unnecessary. It’s only gonna increase. You’re trying nail down a cloud.

18

Well, then what do we mean by “live act”? I think this discourse needs to be defined further to have an adequate discussion. Anything involving a person doing something is happening live. Even if they are just triggering sounds it is live. My distinction is between musicianship and DJing, I guess. I don’t think those should ever be blurred. DJs can incorporate musicianship to their performances, and musicians can incorporate DJ techniques to their performances. But there is still a divide, in my mind.

But it’s all live, as long as someone hits play. Especially being someone live created all of those lines somehow, even if it’s just plugging binary in.

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I don’t think “live act” can be defined at all anymore beyond identifying ends of the spectrum, and I believethe need to do so is less and less important.

I agree 100% about the distinction between musicianship and DJing, if only because I think it’s important to remember that even at your hands-in-the-air, peaktime screaming best, you’re still just playing other people’s music.

20

Well, that I can agree with, Steve.

:slight_smile:

(EDIT: One more reason I love this forum. We can have a discussion where people can start off disagreeing, and even end disagreeing, and no one’s calling anyone names. YAY DJTT)