Where is the love?

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
1

Where is the love?

Ok here we go, most of you know im not the most ‘conventional’ person on here, and im half cut, so here. we. go.
Im looking here for a proper discussion, this is not a (proper) troll.

Seriously? where is the love for these big name ‘DJs’ Watching some of these videos from UMF over the week and downloaded some of the mp3 sets onto my ipod and i cant get enough, Ok so tiesto was a big name a few years ago, still big, his set at UMF was pretty fucking good, yet anywhere i go (not seen it so much in here though), i hear the usual phrase, oh tiesto? hes shit now, funny that because even though not as big as he is anymore, he is still more famous than 90% of the population will EVER be, the guys mixing was pretty fucking good, probably better than a lot of DJs who have called him ‘shit’ and certianly better than the rest of the populations.

Is it jealousy?

Skrillex is another one, yes he ‘performs’ with ableton, and he scored quite highly on the ‘dj’ top 100, ok we can all make the assumption he may be a shit DJ, but whos to say when he is using CDJs he is performing at his 100%? im pretty sure dubstep isnt as technical and creative to mix as say, house, or even some of the harder genre’s, and if he tried to over technicalise himself, it would sound worse? are his mixes smooth? (can i call dubstep smooth?) are they pitched and in time? yes? im pretty sure that makes to an ok DJ, even if he cant “beatmatch by vinyl”, haters will call his productions shit, dubstep is shit, etc etc, youve all heard it all before, but im pretty sure someone who is ‘SHIT’ wins the first (i think) Grammys for EDM, and did it three times.

Next on the agenda is, David guetta is a sell-out, ill ask you this question, if i offered you the man’s fame and money, to work with some of the best in the industry, make your music sound a bit more popier and catchy, and top40esque? and to be a ‘sellout’ and play to thousands upon thousands of people and be set up for life in luxury, would you do it? of course you would, anyone who wouldnt is just plain stupid, a few years ago i seen chase and status play to a crowd of <300 in glasgow, then they became a little more of a ‘sellout’, collabarated with a few ‘pop’ artists, released an album, no more idols, now they are headlining festivals, playing to again, thousands upon thousands of people at a time, doing something they love.

Examples over, my bit now,
Why all the hate? ok i dont like dubstep at all, but i can see that skrillex has done something nobody has managed to do before him, the guy went from the frontman of a shit emo band to near instant stardom, because he bloody well worked for it. Mark sherry, the trance artist, some may have heard of some may not have posted some inspirational words up on facebook earlier,

And this could not have been truer, Yes i love this forum, and many of the people on it, some work insanely hard for what they have, some havent (myself included) but still work towards something they would KILL to do as a full time career, and it does break my heart everytime i see someone sign up just to ask the question ‘hi all, im new to DJing, what should i buy?’ or, i wana be the next skrillex, what do i buy to be the best dj in the world, etc etc.

My dad always told me, (now he NEVER liked anything with a 4x4 beat to it), selling music isnt about what you like, its about what everyone else likes. My Brother is a Jazz saxophonist, pretty high grade, highly technical etc etc, went for the national youth orchestra auditions a couple of weeks ago and i think he was accepted (not 100% on that) and is about to start uni doing classical writing, where does he work? the apple shop. because who likes classical jazz these days? not a big enough crowd to get him weekly gigs anyway.

now i know i have used serious commercial names here, and there are artists just as big who haven’t ‘sold out’,
But put yourself in their shoes,

Somebody likes my sound, but thinks i should do this and that with it, no i dont want to work with rihanna i hate that bitch, works rest of life in a factory doing the odd bit of DJing on a friday and saturday

or

Somebody likes my sound, and thinks i should do this and that with it, ok its not perfect but its catchy, oh hey rihanna you want to work with me too? lets go, ‘works’ rest of life flying all around the world playing to people who adore you, meeting the best of stars (even if you dont like them) and just generally being a VIP.

where is the love?
/rant

2

agree except when big name djs start “faking” djing…i respected guetta up till i saw pictures of him with cdjs that dont have cds in them or shiningians

3

whoa whoa,I don’t quite follow,…

I was gonna say some stuff but I can’t compose a decent because I’m awake for 22 hours straight, so when I’m well rested I’ll speak my mind.

just gonna leave this here: I was talking to a professional house DJ and we were talking about mixing and he said he had no idea how to mix dubstep except maybe like cutting, and let alone being able to count it. He just beatmatches all night long and that’s it and he just layers the drums and bass of each track over each other and thats his mix. I want to continue this but my mind says no. I really need slepe now. I’ll be back :slight_smile:

4

I see your point, I stay away from the hate, david guetta can do what david guetta wants, not my problem haha. Skrillex hate is ridiculous, and it’s simply a trend that will die off soon.

I can see it becoming a cop out when people hate on skrillex when buffing up who they like, it was one thing when people who like OG dubstep vented about skrillex, but now people are saying shit like “This is so much better than gay skrillex shit” on youtubes dubstep channels for artists that are clearly in the same “brostep” boat. Can you really hate on skrillex and say how much more of “True dubstep” Flux Pavilion is? No, that’s when you’re just bandwagoning.

Well, it can’t be denied people are starting DJing because they want to “drop the bass” and be like skrillex, but i think some of that can be blamed on NI when most commercials before EDM on Youtube goes like.. “Want to.. Drop The Bass?! Pick up the NEW Traktor Kontrol S2 from NI!!!”

5

The more popular anyone or anything is, the more haters they’re gonna have. Its not like its exclusive to music producers.

As for “selling out”, Guetta and Skrillex have never really changed their approach to music (unless you include the transition from FFTL to Skrillex, I guess), they’ve just gotten some good promotion doing what they’ve always been doing. Tiesto on the other hand has kind of been riding the wave of shifting genres in line with what’s popular, but I can’t really hate on him either because some of his older tracks and mixes were hugely influential for me, personally.

6

QFT. If ANYTHING, Skrillex has gotten less poppy (In comparison to like, his first EP)

Haters are everywhere.

7

As long as I’m allowed to like what I like and dislike what I dislike. Then that’s fine.

I dislike Guetta’s music. And if I’m asked about it, I’ll say so. You can’t have a discussion with someone about the relative merits of an artist if they’ve never heard of them, can you?

I couldn’t give a flying fat one about how rich or famous he is. I’m pretty sure he’ll be OK though when my judgement filters thru!

8

Tiesto basically bad mouth trance, where he got his start from, where he got huge from, calling it garbage and too easy and went Electro. To me thats just poor form imo. You might transition to other things, but to call where you came from easy and boring is just ridic. This is my main dislike of Tiesto. Guetta rode the wave of F*ck me im famous party but couldn’t produce any of his own tracks. Joachim Garraud admitted to producing Guettas tracks for the first 5-7 years of Guettas career. Since 2007 is when Guetta actually started producing his own tracks.

Not that anyone actually knows many of these things. And not that I care, I like some of both of there stuff at times. BUT I dislike tiesto because of his attitude toward electronic. Like he invented it or something. Guetta I could care less about but I don’t totally dislike the guy.

9

And i recall i saw an interview with Tiesto where he said that he’s producing house music now because it’s “what’s big”.

But related to the topic, I’m with the OP on this one. The one aspect of all this hate that I don’t particularly is the concept of “bad music”. I don’t think there exists bad music in this world, music is a form of artistic expression, regardless if you do it live or in a studio. When someone creates music, they get a release from it, and that’s something you can’t really take away from the artists. Some songs don’t appeal to certain people, but you can’t say that what the artists loves to do is bad. It’s weird, because I never see graphical art referred to as “bad”, i feel it rests solely in the music industry, but there isn’t a real difference between the two fields.

Another thing I’m totally against is when people on artist’s pages on FB or even their youtube videos, and tell them how much they suck. These people are putting their time into something they love, why do you feel the need to do that? I was watching the deadmau5 on ustream late at night once, and the later it goes the more interesting it gets because he shows who he really is. He was talking about people commenting on things he posts, and he said he doesn’t mind the one like comments, but he said the long rants people post on his wall really get to him, because if it took them that much time to write, they must really believe it. The public\s gotten quite harsh towards some artists and their music, but people (I do it too) sometimes forget that artists are real people, not just internet characters. There’s so much hostility and hate online, and I agree with the OP, there needs to be more love towards artists for what they do.

10

Tiesto noted he got out of trance because its not evolving anymore and wasn’t interesting anymore.

He was quoted a couple different ways saying he was bored of trance. Trance was going downhill etc. He had some old tweets really downplaying it. I know its not everyones bag, but it made him who he is. To downplay it is not so nice.

“The biggest thing to happen for me this year is my change in style. I play more eclectic, much more house-driven, and like, indie pop music. The whole trance part is deleted from my set now. It is completely gone. It was a revolutionary thing for me.”

“I just didn’t like the old trancey sounds anymore,” he continues. “It just all started to sound the same to me. Already in Ibiza last year, I had started to play like that, and I saw that the people were up for everything, and it felt great. I’m still learning, experimenting with where to drop which tracks. But everyone’s very supportive.”

11

I think you hit a pretty good mark with your post OP.

I think it’s a combination of a few things really. There really are a lot of people who are just getting into the electronic dance music thing now. With this current wave, which we can thank Dubstep for, there’s a lot of new people who just do not know the history or foundation of where everything came from. It’s the issue with new folks in anything, but it’s just a matter of teaching people.

I see it with my friends. Now, take I’ve been listening HARD to this stuff since I was about 14 or so, going to shows since I was 16, and that was 11 years ago. I’m only NOW being able to get them to come to some shows.

Of course people are going to go nuts at Ultra for the stuff they are familiar with. It just happens to be the “big” thing right now, the boys touring the most, happen to be Dubstep guys.

It also people love to bitch about success. Someone is famous? He MUST BE A DOUCHECANOE! >.> But seriously, it’s just one of those things. People do it with every genre of music, as most of us live, eat, sleep, shit EDM, we’re just seeing it here more and more as our love becomes popular.

Haters gunna hate.

And I agree with you. Just take it all in. I’m fucking HAPPY that more “pop” artists are playing housey business. Seriously. If this shit was on the radio, I would STILL be rocking out to it. And current pop music? House music of 5 years ago with shitty lyrics over the top.

It’s also a matter, and this is just my opinion, that there are two kinds of people who listen to music.

  1. People who listen for lyrics.
  2. People who listen for the beat/melody/rhythm.

And that defines our musical culture. The lyric folk own the “overworld” (as I like to call it), and the music folk have always owned the “underground” really. Just look at opera vs symphony, blues and jazz, the list goes on.

More people are realizing that what we listen to is awesome. And instead of laughing at them for liking some of the break-through artists, I like to say “Well if you like those guys, check these guys out.” And help learn people up a lesson. It’s another part of the electronic music community as a whole that I really enjoy, more people are nice and willing to help out rather than just be dickbag-shitfucks about everything (Can really see the difference from punk vs edm on this issue, even if there is a shared comradery).

Don’t get too worked up about anything. Enjoy what you enjoy, do what you do, and if it gets popular, enjoy sharing that with more people.

12

I remember years back when The World is Mine was a big hit, Guetta played here in Miami and it was an awesome fucking show. He killed the place. As for him and his latest tracks, I don’t care either way. I’ve also seen James Zabiela put an entire WMC party to sleep, dying for the next artist to come on.

As far as skills go, these guys have been around quite a while, I’d imagine on any night they could drop a killer set and are as skilled as you can get with years of practice. Im sure like everyone else, they have off nights and receive twice the amount of shit from everyone else.

13

Mind=Blown.

14

This is all very well and I admire your sentiment, however the human experience is based around making decisions as to what’s good or bad. Without it, we wouldn’t be able to cross the road without getting squashed flat. We’d constantly be choosing food to eat that we didn’t like (or would poison us). We would be rubbish DJs.

Hate the right things for the right reasons!

15

I’ve said this in other threads-- I don’t hate on anyone for doing their thing and getting famous for it. They put in work, they see the rewards. Save for Rebecca Black…she didn’t get famous for the right reasons so her story bothers me quite a bit. :thumbsdown: Even if she is just doing her thing, nobody truly appreciates it.

What makes me hate on an artist is when they get preachy, get fake, or lose their humility. I think Sonny Moore is a genuinely good dude who is just doing what he loves to do. He knows the history of his craft and has tons of respect for the guys who paved the way for him. To me, he’s real and that is all I ask of anyone. Same with Joel Zimmerman. Both are polarizing figures in the DJ world but both have earned my respect. I know people who have had beers with both and they said they are really nice guys who just LOVE producing music for their fans. You know who I think is as fake as rubber dog shit? Lady Gaga.

Now that Aoki, Skrillex, Deadmow Five, and Gwetta have made it to the top they want to stay there. That means giving the people what they want. It’s what any smart artist would do. People want shows–they want a visual experience with pomp and circumstance. These guys can all DJ…I guarantee it, but their shows are 80% visual so why put the emphasis on their DJ skills? We don’t go see them for a good DJ routine. We go to clubs and raves for that.

As for new DJs wanting instant gratification? Makes my blood boil… I’ve preached on this forum that there needs to be a minimum post threshold before a thread can be opened. At least 20 posts. It would weed out the riff raff, cut down on spam, and force people to search. And those 20 posts would have to be quality and constructive. Mods would have to work a little harder, but it’s the only way to cut down on “what should I buy” “how do I beatmatch” and “give me some music” threads.

16

There we go! That properly phrases what I was trying to say. It’s the people who hate an artist based on one of their songs that I find ignorant. Their music =/= the person.

Completely agree. People go to those big shows for the experience and the music, and something they’ll remember. I don’t understand people who go to 10,000+ people shows for the artist’s DJ’ing abilities. There are still a few up there in the industry who can still wow you with their technical skill, like A-Trak, but for the majority it’s all about having a good time.

17

I was actually impressed with Guetta’s track selection. Carl Cox really had me moving too. Everything I heard during UMF was pretty decent. Afrojack was probably the least favorite performance I heard. It was a combination of him and then lil jon speaking every 5 seconds, very annoying. I’m not a huge fan of Skrillex but his Bangarang EP I can listen to and enjoy. His previous album, I did not like at all lol.

18

[QUOTE]im pretty sure dubstep isnt as technical and creative to mix as say, house,
[/QUOTE]

Well, depends if you’re talking about brostep or “real” dubstep. I don’t know about “real” dubstep, but I wouldn’t say brostep is easy to mix.
Ok, it’s all 140, no need to even beatmatch, but still, it’s so intense and full of instruments, that it’s hard to make it not sound messy, and to me it requieres therefore some preparation work. On the other hand, house or techno, and genres about subtleness are pretty much straight forward, and don’t need any prep work. Still, making an exceptional house set is as hard as any other genre, but basic mixing is way easier since the tracks are already soft and smooth.

[QUOTE]Next on the agenda is, David guetta is a sell-out, ill ask you this question, if i offered you the man’s fame and money, to work with some of the best in the industry, make your music sound a bit more popier and catchy, and top40esque? and to be a ‘sellout’ and play to thousands upon thousands of people and be set up for life in luxury, would you do it? of course you would.
[/QUOTE]

Of course, money is tempting. But why do I hate this guy ? Because by mixing like a coconut, or even playing a pre recorded set, he’s insulting all of us who are working hard to pull awesome mixes. I would say that 80% of people here are technically way above him, and more important, don’t pretend to mix.
Still, he’s racking like what, 20 grands a gig ? Some DJs are spinning very well, are producing quality tunes (or at least not pop shit), and are still famous/rich/whatever. (ie, Roger Sanchez, Carl Cox..)

The perfect example to illustrate that is a show I saw when I was studying in the US.
DG and Kelly Rowland were invited to a show. The music started, the singer was singing, and behind her, the world’s best DJ MEGA COUGH was moving, and touching knobs and decks but wasn’t doing anything. The normal radio version tune was playing the background.
I mean, this is such a disrespect to the the fans/other EDM artists that I insult him nice and loud if I see him in the streets of Paris. Really. I never behave like that, I’m not that kind of guy, but I think I’d be wrong to let him walk like a boss when deep inside he’s empty and shameless.

Agree partially on that. Learning to make good music is a loooong process, but becoming famous can be instant, with very few tracks.

Madeon, 1 pop culture video, few tracks, instant world tour with super famous DJs.
Porter Robinson, releases “say my name”, with few other tracks that are not as good (and I doubt he ever played his pre-say my name tracks at a gig), top 1 on beatport for 3 weeks, instant worldwide tour with super famous DJs.

I don’t say that these guys aren’t talented, but just pointing how fast they acquiered they status.
Celebrity these days can be aquiered in few hours…

19

It’s a shame the amount of hate that results from EDM.

IMO you either love it, or you don’t. Sure not every DJ, producer, genre will be your cup of tea, but they are still part of EDM as a whole.

I couldn’t believe some of the negative comments while watching the UMFTV feed. People were ripping on Carl Cox and his Friday night underground set. The man is a LEGEND. His set was DOPE and the crowd was loving it.

I will give Guetta credit though and I’m rather critical of him, but the man is talented. His UMF set was really good. I just do not like his involvement in the “pop” scene. He turned me off a few years ago when I saw him live in Copenhagen. He did a few songs w/ Kelly Rowland for a kiddie concert for their version of MTV (The Voice). His 20 min set was all staged and prerecorded. It was nice to see him rock it out in Miami.

20

I too have been thinking about points that have been made in this thread. Even more so about the way that this ever growing, and now booming, form of art that we love and call DJ’ing is being over run by its own evolutionary success. The understandable, but yet testy/arrogant temperament of some veteran DJ’s on this forum is something that I think also shows the lack luster or “hate” of what the community is all about… Music. Music and the way an INDIVIDUAL person feels when the magical frequencies hit their ears.

I think that even something as small as the infinite debates of sync vs. manual beatmatching or the big DJ’s “being real” vs doing something new, suck the life and fun out of the DJ’ing (and maybe even the music) community. These endless debates just perpetuate an industrialization of thinking that DJ’ing and music can ONLY be done this way! That in turn dulls creativity that could evolve music even more. Its funny how music itself has changed, evolved (whether you like the sound of it or not:wink:), so dramatically, but yet the way some ppl think about it is so standardized.

IMO- a lot of the things that make music great or bring music down as a whole (DJ’ing, producing, listening, etc) comes down to a very personal and individual experience. In the end it is up to each individual to make the most of how they enjoy music.