Xone K2 Question
Not sure if this is a dumb question, but…
Why do some DJs use the K2 controller with a mixer? Doesnt the K2 do all the necessary volumes and EQ and effects?
just seems a bit of a pointless thing having another mixer using a single channel on it.
Generally, the bigger names use the K2 for transport for four decks, and all the channels on the mixer. Fabio Florido comes to mind. I don’t know Richie Hawtins exact mapping, but I suspect he has his four decks and effects mapped to both his K2s, along with some extra controls for Ableton. I personally use the K1 as an extra control surface for my Push, which goes out on a fifth channel on the mixer.
Thank you for the reply, I think i need to take a deeper look how those controllers work with mixers before deciding if I want them. The K2 (or K1 for that matter) has everything there already, so having a mixer doesnt seem worth the expense (perhaps unless you’re a big name DJ lol).
I also need to look into what software I want to use, traktor and rekorbox are what i have used before and like them both, prefer rekordbox though for the sampler feature.
This is my setup, but you could replace the X1s with a couple of K1s/K2s or a even one at a push. It’s running with an external audio interface and Traktor.
FYI, I’ve never seen any of the big names using the K2 built in audio interface. They tend to choose it because it has a layer feature.
Hawtin actually talked about it in a promo video for the Model 1.
He uses the knobs as effect and parameter controls for Live, the faders for level controls in Live, and the buttons for traktor transport, sync, and looping controls.
All of the audio goes through an antelope Orion 32.
IIRC, he’s actually only using 3 decks in traktor, 2 from live for drums and stuff, one from some analog synths, and 2 effect returns.
So, no…no audio through the K2s.
As for a reason almost everyone uses a mixer, the K2 knobs are really tightly packed, and the whole thing is pretty small. It wouldn’t be as good of an experience.
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K series also don’t have centre indents on the knobs.
Hawtin uses 4 decks, has Live on another and one S/R for his delay plugin.
Because mixing on a hardware mixer is better than controlling a virtual mixer with a controller.
Define “better”? Not disagreeing, but that’s a rather loose claim.
Like a “real deal”, immune to a possible latency. Same as comparing the jog nudge with a 1200s platter nudge. Both can work equally well but there’s the risk of “hangs”.
I’ve had latency on the faders of professional-level digital mixers before. I’ve also had a catastrophic crash on a very recent flagship digital club mixer, requiring a complete unplug and restart. My point being that the idea hardware mixers are somehow more reliable is false. There are much better arguments for using a hardware mixer. Dedicated controls and audio routing, for one. Probably having separate booth and main out controls. Modular options. Arguably higher quality components. More input/output connections.
Don’t get me wrong, I would always prefer to use my Xone setup, but for regular old DJing (which is the vast bulk of what people do), you wouldn’t notice any difference in the final recording on a controller vs a hardware mixer.
I disagree.
What you’re saying isn’t necessarily wrong, but you’re oversimplifying the picture.
It’s down to the quality of the controller and how well set up they are. The “problem” is that DJ gear has been a game of “good enough” for a very long time. And, at the same time, people have different definitions of good enough.
The K2 doesn’t feel good enough to replace a mixer.
But…on the other end…
I’ve mixed on one of these before:
It’s a controller for Pro Tools’a internal mixer. I’ve also mixed on an SSL console. And, the controller was a better experience.
With digital mixers, you’re essentially using a control surface and a single-use computer too. And they’re responsible for a LOT of live and studio sound setups and a lot of DJ setups.
“Controller” is not the problem.
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Key word - digital. Your bad experience with digital mixers may be also seen as an additional argument to be wary with controllers coz they are even “more digital”. What I had on mind as a “real thing” was a completely analog hardware.
Most of this is possible with controller and is up to the software/soundcard, isn’t it? My basic dislike I was talking about is that with a controller I’ll always feel like walking on eggs. Not saying they can’t feel equally good as hardware, but you’re dependent on the computer you use, which is not the case with standalone hardware.
Soundwise mostly not (depends on the soundcard), but the physical feel of manipulation may be different, me thinks.
Also the computer in use.
[quote=“electroshock, post:12, topic:76790, username:electroshock”]
Key word - digital. Your bad experience with digital mixers may be also seen as an additional argument to be wary with controllers coz they are even “more digital”. What I had on mind as a “real thing” was a completely analog hardware.
[/quote] “More digital” isn’t a thing. It either is or isn’t. Kind of like digital. But, keeping in mind what you mean…
There are some really fantastic controllers out there, even for reasonable sums. The Pioneer DDJ line, for example. Back in the day, my VCM-600 felt better than 90% of DJ mixers on the market. Pretty much anything NI makes (apart from jog wheels) feels different but as high quality as just about anything out there until you get into boutique stuff.
And saying it’s dependent on the computer ignores the obvious comparison to minutia of components. In a computer, you’re mostly talking about software setup and maintenance. In general, the hardware is pretty good. With analog stuff, just about everything has the potential to affect the sound. Analog design differences get into very small things that can have a big impact and that the vast majority of people aren’t even dimly aware of. And, don’t forget that CDJs are basically computers with controllers built in.
If you’re talking pure vinyl…I guarantee you that your stylus is more fragile than anything in even the cheapest controllers.
As for capabilities…it goes either way. And it’s mostly down to the design decisions made for each product, not whether they did it with bits or resistors.
It’s actually incredibly easy to make a DSP or general purpose computer do all the things a DJ mixer does. Especially with modern technology. The sound card itself is the complicated part, and the feel of the controls.
Analog mixers also require high-quality components (in many cases the same components) for the controls to feel right.
I’m all for the best tool for the job, and you like what you like. But, what you’re talking about comes down to the elusive “vibe” that some pieces of gear have.
There’s a reason I run Traktor (or rekordbox, whatever) into an analog Rane. But, it’s not because it’s analog. Frankly, I’d probably like it better if I were playing all digital through the mixer, through Class-D amps, all the way to conversion right before voice coils.
So…if your argument is about sound…there are a few little “gotchas” in digital audio that a lot of people (and companies) still haven’t made easy. If your argument is about feel or vibe, it’s about the speicfic devices.
If you route two channels to control them via external mixer - you get more controls on K2 for other important software functions.
BTW - I can highly recommend Allen Heath Xone K2. Great quality controller & sound. It works amazing standalone as well as with external mixer. Very portable and with proper mapping - covers all necessary functions, so you can just have one K2 with computer and play a gig without touching your laptop even once.
Well I finally skimmed this and guess Imma have to give it a full read over. This thread went in a whole different direction.
