a question for ean, regarding TP2

DJ Software & Apps Traktor
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a question for ean, regarding TP2

Hi Ean,

As you’ve already been using it, could you please enlighten us explaining your observations regarding the following existing issues with the current S4 software? Basically, has any of these issues been reviewed in the beta you have? Thanks for your help.

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I don’t think these forums are a personal hotline to Ean. There may well be others that can answer your questions but I would recommend spending some time searching existing threads. Many of these questions have already been raised and discussed in detail.

SmiTTTen

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I would be interested in an answer also.

Smitten these have been discussed, but we don’t have any real answer.

Ean may/maynot respond as he is rarely posting in the forums these days if at all, but he does have the software and could possibly answer the questions listed if it is ok with NI. Which, it probably isn’t, or some one at NI would have given us the info already. Enrico did his homework as he posted links to all the questions at hand. Good job!

They have already stated that key lock on sample decks is coming, but I didn’t see it in the software pics for TPro2 at NI :disappointed:

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Fair play. It would be wicked to see a copy of the release notes at some point as that should provide a complete list of enhancements and fixes.

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I have a feeling some things will be fixed when TPro2 comes out(it’s worse than waiting for christmas:rage:slight_smile:, but not all, not for a little while anyway.

There’s gonna be a whole lotta people doin some remapping once it comes out though, lol. Gotta get sample deck control at minimum.:stuck_out_tongue:

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awesome follow up questions.

Dude has been a member since 2008 with only 2 posts before this one.

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thats what I call the king of lurkers, lol.

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I follow a forum where a lurker made ONE post a few months ago after being a lurker since 2001. Thing is the forum had a revamp in 01 so if you were a member in 95 your member date was 01. We still don’t know how long he had been there or where he went. He made one post and it was two words.

There is now a tribute thread for him!!!

Impressive post by Enrico none the less. WITH links. That took some time. I’ll continue to bump this until he gets his answers.
:smiley:

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i posted in a forum the other day i had been a member of since about 03 or 04… i think i’ve had a total 4 posts (3 were made the day i joined up!!)

i lurked here for about 8 months before i joined :slight_smile:

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I lurk on most of my forums just because I dont like having to build a reputation just to gain mutual respect from the posters so that they’ll take me seriously. Instead I only post in here and B at the moment (exc facebook)

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I will try to get some answers for you guys.

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thanks for the coronation hahaha

yes, i actually watch this website and forums many times per week. my apologies for not participating more, but if something has already been said, why bother repeating?

a lot of professional, devoted and geek people around, provides always a profiting read. nice to meet you :slight_smile:

i posted the same question on NI forums (where -before you want to check- i am member since 06 and have made around 300 posts) and by now all we’ve got from the people that is able to answer that, is silence. awkward silence.

in times like this, -new update, new features, etc.- i get so sick to see old issues and others recenly introduced aparently not getting attention, or at least not being explained, while giving priority to some fancy stuff that only matters fancy people.

i dj 3 to 4 times per week, i get money for that -fact that may be discussed in another post if you want- and i am worried about these ‘minor issues’ that make my job harder when they should be part of the core functionalities, as important as the program stability.

how many times you press cue during a night?? i may do it hundreds, or even close to a thousand times each night. always, having to be worried about when the soft decides to cheat me (us). that’s not fair, that issue should be priority 0 and resolved in a hot patch. now as a new version has been announced, this leads to 2 months of waiting, at least. same thing goes for the loops that disengage randomly for pressing cue, size for stored loops not being updated in the display, not being able to apply a filter after i’ve frozen a delay or add a turntable fx to a beatsliced sample… or simply taking some bass out of a beatmashed sample.

there are more minor issues like for example, while having snap activated, set a cue having the cursor over one clear beat, and the software mysteriously sets the cue on the NEXT beatmarker, not the closest. and it keeps doing it. and to add even more mystery, it does happen on some tracks only. the list is some posts above.

so, let’s keep the faith… but please NI, come on make our life easier..

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this

and because most forums are full of complete bell-ends that just like to cause arguments for the sake of entertaining themselves.. ala serato.com forums for one

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Thanks a lot Tekki. That would be awesome!

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Ok guys some of these questions can only be answered by checking the Bug Tracker.
As some of these may still be under review or Beta Testing, so no-one can comment.

Until a Bug or Issue is signed off as Fixed no comment can be made. Thats the nature of Beta Testing.

I will try and answer each one.

BUT: if i cant i wont.

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Hi Karlos, thanks for replying.

I’m afraid i am not much familiar with that beta testing nature you mention. Sorry if i have pushed hard to hear something. But some of these issues are really important to be solved, you as a S4 user may be aware as well.

Although i naively thought they would be resolved earlier, knowing at least they are on the spot at some point, is good. As we are still 2 months before the release, i’ll keep the faith.

Anyway, I understand your role means sometimes you have to keep secrets.

Despite what i may think about this secrecy, i appreciate you and Tekki passing by, acknowledging you care and will do what’s possible.

The feeling has been empasized since last tuesday when i tested a ddj t1 with traktor pro and realized how good it was to have a truly responsive cue button that makes no pops when released and the ability to chain effects or modify the eq after an effect has been thrown. i really miss that basic, core functionalities. shouldn’t have to be like that.

i know the workaround is to say… ‘ok, use tpro then!’ but hey, i had to sell my audio8 and the tspro license -and a vci too- in a bet for a better equipment. my bet was to believe in native instruments, once again. with that, i’m just saying that NI could be more gentle with people that demonstrates that are participating, that are loyal, that assumes risks, are helping find small bugs (or not so small), said otherwise, guinea pigs that pay to be testers… and on top of that, doing it blindly with close to zero feedback. (agreed that it does not only happen with NI products)

it’s not that they have to, but that it would be a nice gesture towards us, probably just to make us feel we’re seen as humans instead of numbers.

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Excellent mate!

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@enrico, you make a very good point…

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Software Development, Testing and Launch

I work for a software developer and have launched a bunch of products over the years. Beta testing and launch criteria vary from one company to another and may also vary internally (we have multiple product teams who don’t all work using the same methods). My current teams use “Agile” development where the coding is done in 6 week “sprints” (or cycles). During a sprint the developers work through a series of stories and code the functionality needed to make that story work in the software. A simple example of a story is “User presses start button on deck A and track in deck A begins playing.” These stories are prioritized by the product teams and the developers simply start with highest priority story and work their way down the list. You have to imagine that zoom-able waveforms and updated Windows drivers figure high on NI’s list of stories.

As the coders complete stories or parts of stories (a story can range from a simple action to a large chunk of product) there will be a quality assurance team that follows closely behind testing the code. In some cases the testing is done by hand, in other cases automated testing tools are used put pieces of the code through their paces and to see if works as designed and how it handles unexpected actions and errors. I many cases a combination of manual and automated tested it used.

At the end of a sprint coding stops, the work is reviewed and the scope for the next sprint is defined. This process is repeated until a) a defined date is met or b) a given number of stories are completed. If its date driven the risk is that the software may not contain all the features and fixes the customers demand. If it’s B the launch date can get pushed back and customers may lose faith and buy something else. Either way it can be a gamble for the product team if things don’t go out as planned. Problems in this area can occur when a story is incorrectly defined and more/better information is needed for development to work on it or, the job to complete a given story was under-estimated.

Once the developers are done working through the sprints or stories the product is classed as “Code Complete”. That means the software looks good at that point based on internal testing. That version of the product then goes to beta testers who generally test the product in their working environment. For NI this may mean Dj’s taking the new software out on the road or just testing it at home or in the studio. The beta testers bring a different angle as they are generally power users. They know the software inside and out and they also use it in the real world. In some cases the beta testers may know more about how the software should function than the developers or QA analysts working on the software. Beta testing is very different from an internal testing which is performed in lab conditions.

Beta testers record any bugs/unexpected behavior and document it. All that information goes back to the development and QA teams. Here comes the rub, a beta tester finds something that appears to be a minor fault but the resolution to that fault may require inordinate amounts of development work. I have seen this happen time and time again. Multiply that by the number of potential bugs reported by all the beta testers and the product team has to decide how much time to assign to fixing the bugs and which ones to let go (i.e. remove certain functionality from the product or include it with bugs). It can get further complicated in situations where the work required to fix a bug cannot be scoped until the development team pulls everything apart. This is why software companies have to be somewhat secretive about beta results and the distribution of pre-release versions. There can be times when a feature in a beta release is not in the final product as it was found to be buggy and the fix would push the release date out by months. There may also be situations where Technical Support uncover a serious bug in the currently released version and fixing that needs to be figured in and priorities changed accordingly.

In my experience it’s rare that release dates don’t change and that the list of items planned for a particular release is exactly what makes it into the product. The product and development teams are continually working to tweak the balance between releasing quality, working software and not pushing release dates out and upsetting the user community. I think the preview info that NI put out is pretty good as many companies wouldn’t be saying a single word until the product was cut and dried.

What I have described here is my experience with the companies I have worked for. There are other development and product management processes used today but this one is common. As users we don’t have to necessarily empathize with the vendors of the products we buy but this might give some people a little insight into the challenges NI may be dealing with. It’s way more art and less science than people often imagine…

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Wow thanks for the insight and epic post there Smitten!

Always appreciate the mods helping out!! I hope Karlos or Tekki can tell us a few things.

Enrico, you should post a little more, as your posts are of excellent quality!