so i started getting into this dj thing when i stumbled across this site, and started getting into the “underground scene” if you can call it that. well thats what it is where i come from, and since i saw one dj using vinyl dvs, i knew i just had to get into it.
so i got an APC 40 for cheap, and my friend let me have his copy of traktor 2 pro scratch, as he decided he was moving to serato. he does vinyl DVS, and said i could use it for controllerism and stuff. he sold his soundcard to help buy his new rane mixer. so then i started controllerism wth the apc. made mappings for myself. but i never quite felt ok with it. i was talked into doing some shows with controllers at the local record shop, but around the turntablists, i felt embarrassed, and unskilled.
so i saved up and got a cleap but workable set of Gemini XL-500II Turntables, a 2 ch. gemini mixer and a handfull of scratch and break records off a retiring cover band.
i decided buying a cheap audio 4 and controll vinyl was next.
the controll vinyl arives tomorrow, and i get my first taste of vinyl DVS. ive been practicing hard on the regular vinyl that i have, and want to know what your expierences and stories are getting to the stages of DVS, and if its really that close to real vinyl. i am loving the real vinyl. i finally feel like im interacting with the music, not a machine.
i plan on remapping my apc as a second controller, or link traktor and ableton for something like the bridge. a midi-fighter is going to be in there somewhere too (i already have one. came when i had a controllerist dream)
personal stories/expierence/preferance on controllers and Vinyl DVS?
Never had DVs but started off with vynle loved it but felt limited so moved on to cdjs that lasted a few month now got an s2 but deep down I am missing the vynle touch maybe when I have some more room I will try a DVs
i liked the controller, but i felt like i was only limited to playing and effects in my music. i wanted to be able to just spin it and wreck it. i wanted the possibility to screw it up. i needed the bigger chalenge. i needed to actually see the movement and feel the drag of it under my hands. im addicted to the vinyl. i just need my music library back. lol
im hoping its really close to the response of vinyl.
I started back in 1995 with turntables and a mixer. I “left” the scene in 2000 and only jumped back in at the beginning of last year. I sold my Technics in 2008 so decided on the S4 which I still love. I then added Numark TTXs and more recently upgraded to 1200s for a second time.
As for how close DVS is to real vinyl, I think that is going to somewhat depend on the setup. With the traditional set up of two decks and a mixer there were a very limited set of variables that could affect the playing experience and delivered sound. With DVS you can (in my opinion) more than adequately emulate the traditional environment. There are a good number of DJs at the top of their respective games that use it 100%. Obviously the biggest potential variable is latency. If your system is introduces too much latency into the equation you are not going to get a real time experience. Now, I wouldn’t run off worrying about latency to the nth degree. If you set everything up and it feels and sounds right, it is right. As for sound, there may be some difference between what you hear from traditional vinyl and what you hear from a digital file. I am genuinely not sure if I could pass the Pepsi challenge today but that might have more to do with the way in which music is produced rather than how it is delivered.
From the turntablist’s perspective the sound and experience is almost the same and I don’t know if there is that much of a difference to warrant sticking to vinyl only. Qbert did a side-by-side comparison between Traktor and Serato that you can find on YT. I wouldn’t worry too much about what local turntablists think about what you use. If you feel good and sound good, it’s all good. Everyone has an opinion and wants to defend what they have hung their hat on. Let them get on with it
The things I did notice that made a difference: Traktor Control vinyl – I felt the Mk2 did create fractionally cleaner scratches. I upgraded my crossfader to an Innofader which made a huge difference. You don’t necessarily need a killer crossfader for scratching but it helps a hell of a lot. That’s true regardless of what turntable setup you use.
Seems like you in a similar position to a lot of us, you are still in the experimentation phase and that’s a fun time. To be honest, with the constant innovation in this space, many of us may never come out of that phase!
and smitten again leaves a great comment for me to think about!
as for the other turntableists, they thought it was cool, so i had some peoples respect as “that new kid” but i felt that i wasnt really performing as myself, it felt like i was just sittin around. it didnt involve me enough.
but as for latency, i seem to be getting an average of 6.2ms in traktor. i dont know if the vinyls would add latency to the equation… i wouldnt think so..
im just concerned that it wont feel as real, and that it will feel more like expensive jogwheels.
traktors DVS is “close enough” to real vinyl in 99 percent of applications to me personally. if youre trying to just have a straight up scratch session or battle or something you can always just use a real record. youll be siked dont worry!
when final scratch first came out i remember watching the original developers videos on the web and getting so siked for it, but never really believing wed get that kind of power in our own hands. then they sold it to stanton and i ran out and bought a new laptop and got the very first version and ran home full of ideas and BAM it sucked ass.
i was very leary after that of any kind of software being able to hold up to my expectations of real vinyl, but i have to say after having TSP2 for a year now, im very satisfied. sure it has some bugs and isnt exactly perfect but youll be having so much fun you wont care.
Learned DJing with cds, but bought a controller to have the ease of just using your laptop as music library. As I still wanted to learn things a bit the ‘oldskool’ way, I bought the Numark NS7 to get the best of both worlds. I was quite happy with it, did some gigs with it but in the end I realised I just had half of both worlds. I missed the features of the digital side and the feel of the vinyl side. Didn’t really feel connected to the music anymore.
Recently bought myself a set of Technics with a bunch of vinyl, and I really, really love it. This is how DJing is meant to be!
Honestly there are a few differences, but they aren’t that big.
I still haven’t tried the mkII timecodes but with the mkI it sometimes feels weird scratching, it sounds a bit different specially when doing slower movements. It sometimes feels like its not applying the right “pitch” to the sound. However this is a really faint impression, its something you can feel if you have used a lot of vinyl, less so if you are just starting using it.
As for the latency, if it’s staying under or around 8ms it’s ok, and here’s the thing : the more you practice, the less you will be bothered by it. It takes a bit to get used to, but then you will be able to adjust to it, and go from vinyl to timecode and back without it being an “obstacle”, it’s a mater of training.
If i can advise something too, train a lot on vinyl at first, because its less forgiving. Because it’s less forgiving it means you will have to put extra care in not fugin’up things, and when you’ll translate that to dvs it will be a breeze. Also going from vinyl to dvs to vinyl and etc when practicing is a good routine, helps keeping things challenging/interesting.
It’s a really good skill to have to be able to just use any medium to dj. You could also map something on the apc and try to beat match with buttons, not for the novelty of it, but more so as an “exercise”. This way you don’t feel bad to use sync when you only dj with the apc, but more importantly that means that if anything goes wrong you will be in CONTROL of what is happening, and not getting nervous at the fact that something went awry.
ive been dj’n a loooong time… since 1998… yeah im old… 35 and counting lol… but when i saw the first DVS come out i was well sceptical… and even as it eveolved to traktor and serato… i was still on the fence.. but as gigs piled up and music got realeased quicker n quicker… i took the plunge… and will never ever ever regret it… it wasnt until now i started playing with things like the dicers and the lpd8… i always stuck to serato as a dvs… but as a turntablist at heart… i can truly say that DVS and midi.. have certainly upped my game… without the sacrafice of feeling like i abandoned my roots
Started on vinyl myself, Technics 1200’s and a really basic mixer. From 1995 to about 1998 I was very heavy into the dj world but started to fade away. In 2007 I bought Serato Scratch Live and played with this but it’s been collecting dust in storage for a while. I’ll break it out every once in a while but due to the amount of space it takes, I tend to throw it back into storage.
Just now I’m starting to get back, purchasing a controller. I wanted to get something smaller, that would fit on my desk, plus allow me to play with the sound more.
On the question of controllers vs DVS, I really don’t know from too much experience. I did try out a American Audio VMS 4.1 recently, on my PC it was pretty bad with latency running Virtual DJ. Also the PC was a recent gaming PC build with a i5 Intel, so I don’t think it was due to performance (or maybe Windows?). In no way did it feel natural, yet I felt pretty comfortable switching to the Pioneer CDJ’s. I might be more picky about latency, but it’s a serious deal breaker to hear and see the delay reaction from your movements and the screen. I am hoping that running a controller on my Mac will have less latency.
Comparing vinyl to a DVS? From running Serato Scratch Live v1, I couldn’t tell much if any difference. I was running Serato from a very old IBM Thinkpad T42 and still never got any latency issues while scratching or beat mixing. Also one of my friends, very non-technical, was able to switch right to SSL with just a few minutes of instruction. To him, the difference wasn’t noticeable and worth using the computer to scratch some of the impossible to find vinyl.
I learned my basics at scratch academy in new york last summer, with some instrumental type records, and then we moved to serato. the only thing they really had to teach us was calibration, which is less automatic in serato (at least is used to be). I use TSD2 now, and the main difference I feel is the records themselves. timecode feels a tiny bit different on your fingertips from vinyl, and its a bit thicker and heavier than the the singles which comprise most of my piss-poor collection. The timecode also collects a bit more grime, but that is only because they are used for much longer periods at a time.
They’re really close. If you want a closer experience, put it in absolute mode and put the laptop behind you (like where your record crate would be). I honestly think SSL is probably “better” in that regard just because of a few small features: needle drop to absolute position and needle drop to cue point…though both only work in relative mode, so I don’t use them.
