I was djing last weekend, I was really unwell. Been diagnosed with epilepsy. So I thought I’d used ableton to make a mix in arrangement view, in case anything happened when I was working, the music would continue. Then all I have to do is eq the tracks,
However the sound is nowhere near as punchy as traktor, I was using the same soundcard audio6 and djm800, or anywhere near as loud. I did have a limiter on the master channel as I didn’t want it clipping.
I don’t use ableton that much, only for messing around with loops and I have made a couple of tracks last year, so maybe there is a setting I have got wrong?
Could someone tell me when I should have set up, limiters etc. on each channel or master.
Hey mate. Sorry to hear about the epilepsy. PM me if you want to talk about it. I’m in that club =)
How are you setting up your tracks in Ableton? Do you have 1 track per channel / bus? Im guessing thats how youre doing it or putting them all on 1 channel, either way, whats happening, when you’re arranging them in the arrange window, the tracks are already mastered, so they are peaking at the highest level (volume) on the master bus as it is already. When the 2 tracks overlap, the sound is now going above the maximum, causing it to peak. You just need to lower the volume of each track to begin with slightly. I would leave the master channel alone and leave it where it is.
I’m surprised it doesnt sound as punchy. Theres no different soundcard. Traktor automatically sets itself to -3dB when mixing externally. I would get rid of your limiter and thats probably whats crushing the tracks and making them sound less punchy and just adjust the volume on the tracks in Ableton on the channels themselves before hand. Or using automation. Just go along to where each mix is where the 2 tunes blend together and watch the master volume level and make sure it doesnt peak over. Adjust as necessary (not the master though).
Hi, thanks for the reply, I’m ok just tired and can’t drive so it’s a nightmare with a child too.
I’m running it in arrangement view with 2 separate channels on djm800 mixer so I just have control over the volume and eqing. Tracks start and stop on their own. Track 1 on ableton is channel 1 on djm800 and track 2 is channel 2 on djm800.
So if I take off the limiter on the master channel and lower the 2 channels in ableton by 2db?
Just make sure it’s not going in the red on ableton?
I’ve just filled out my form to drive again. Its sat here on my desk, awaiting to fax it off… I know your pain! This is the 2nd time I’ve had to stop driving in 5/6 years. Is your doc sending you for MRIs/ECGs/EEGs, etc?
Do you midi map your DJM800 to Ableton? There will be a way that you can make -XdB the 100% line / as far as the channel fader will go, but still be a few dB under, so as not to clip the track. Cant remember off the top of my head how.
Yep, just make sure the master doesnt clip by reducing the 2 separate tracks =)
Yes I just had my MRI scan last night, so touch wood it’s all ok, but they happened in my sleep, it shaken my other half up quite badly.
No I haven’t mapped the djm800 as I just used my laptop through my audio 6 and left it playing, then just eqed as normal through the mixer as if. Would of used traktor with external mixer.
I’ll try it for an hour tonight and see what it sounds like. If not I could just send the whole mix into traktor and hopefully it will sound as as traktor normally sounds and play it through that, just eq and volume the tracks before I export it.
Ah ok then, so its simple. Just lower the volume within Ableton on channel A & B. Lower it enough so there is no clipping at any stage. You can then get rid of the limiter and turn up your master volume on your mixer (not on the master channel on Ableton)!
I didnt think night seizures meant you had to stop driving!! Ahh, you have to have a pattern of ONLY sleep seizures for a year is how I read it:
"I only ever have seizures when I am asleep
If you have seizures when you are asleep, you are allowed to drive when:
you have been seizure free for a year or
you have at least a one-year pattern of seizures while asleep only, and you have never had seizures when awake or
you have had awake seizure in the past, but you now have at least a three-year pattern of seizures while asleep only.
You must also meet the following conditions.
As far as your are able, you follow your doctor’s advice about your treatment and check-ups for epilepsy and
the driving agency is satisfied that as a driver you are not likely to be a source of danger to the public."
For some reason if you use either Complex or Complex Pro warp modes in Ableton for a full track, it massively increases the dynamic range (by nearly 6dB). I’m not sure why this is, possibly filter ripple.
If you use either of these modes, you’ll either need to turn the channels down by 6dB to compensate, or insert a limiter, neither of which will solve your problem.
Try using RE-Pitch mode instead, as this doesn’t add any undesirable artefacts, and replicates what you’d get with a 1210 or a CDJ.
Perhaps the issue is with your audio settings on Ableton. Try switching your sample rate to 48000hz which is Traktor’s default. For some reason Ableton defaults to 41000hz, so even if you’re using the same soundcard, your sample rate might affect your overall sound. Also “Default SR & Pitch Conversion” should be on high quality, and mess around with your buffer size so your CPU can handle it appropriately. Hope it helps!
If you’re using a Traktor Audio 6 and a DJM 800, why aren’t you just sending externally to Channel 1 & 2 on the DJM and using the mixer as your master? Also, keep 44100hz as your sample rate. Rarely do you get a file with 48000hz, especially mp3s.
Pro and Complex warp modes dull the sound tremendously - I try to use beats mode whenever possible, but it does mean a lot more auditioning of tracks the whole way through as weirdness can occur at breakdowns or instrumental segments.
If you’re playing your selections at 0dB on each channel (assuming the songs are mastered at or near 0dB), if you put a limiter on the master section that is set a few dB below zero, you’re going to be squashing your entire set unnecessarily. That’s definitely going to dull the sound of your output and possibly add some distortion to the output.
If you’re operating live at 48kHz and your song is at 44.1kHz, that means your rig has to spend CPU cycles calculating the sample rate conversion for how ever many tracks you have going at once. The same applies to any compressed file formats (mp3s, etc.). Decoding a 44.1kHz MP3 (even 320s) and then upconverting them to 48kHz loads your system unnecessarily, especially when you’re eventually outputting to analog through a mixer or other analog input.
48kHz is usually for digital audio synced to video. Upconverting from 44.1kHz to 48kHz doesn’t make the audio content sound better because of the higher resolution. It downgrades the quality, especially when transcoding in real time.
If you’re going out to a mixer, then you can give yourself a very reasonable amount of headroom. You never know when something is going to accidentally come in louder than it should or if an effect is going to get carried away. Once you hit digital zero, you’re sending some horrible stuff over the PA.
If you want to push a track up in volume for any reason, having the digital headroom will let you do that as well.
I come from a technical background and not a DJing one. So let me put a disclaimer on the advice. But I think it is pretty universal when talking about gain-staging audio and sample-rate converting.
