Controller for use only as Mixer

DJ Gear & Hardware Hardware: Controllers, Mods and Gear
1

Controller for use only as Mixer

So…I like my X1s. I’ve been using them for a while for basically all deck/effects controls, and I’m sold on DJing that way for a while.

I’ve been having more issues with finding a mixer I’m happy with. I own a xone:62 that’s fine…I typically use it when I’m anywhere but home. I also have a VCM-600 from when I was on Ableton that works.

The weird thing is that the “mixer” that I enjoy using the most is my LPD8 mapped to control Traktor’s internal mixer in the simplest way possible: 4 pads for cue, 4 pads for master tempo controls, a 3-band master EQ, a cue/mix blend control, and 4 level controls.

I think it’s brilliant. I use the knobs on my X1s as EQs most of the time because I just don’t use effects that much (plus the K2 seems perfect for that), but I really don’t need EQs that much for the type of mixing that I really enjoy.

The only problem with the lpd8 is that it feels really cheap (I mean…I paid like $30 for it, so I’m not complaining). Like…I feel like I’m going to break it every time I touch it.

I really like mixing on rotary mixers…I never slam faders and–in Traktor–run my gains pretty hot so I can just use the level controls the way you would on an old rotary.

So…does anyone have any suggestions for a rotary mixer-like controller that could replace it? Budget isn’t really a concern within reason.

Ideally, I’d just ditch it being a controller and buy an SL4 or Audio 8 and one of these:

800×600 134 KB

…but they’re expensive, hard to come by, and impossible to get serviced in the US. I’ve also wanted one since I first saw it a few years ago…I just can’t justify what they cost.

Needs:

  • 4 Big, chunky, smooth, fairly tight rotary pots without center detents in a horizontal row. (level)
  • 4-6 other rotary pots, though they can be smaller and neither detents nor feel (other than “not cheap”) matter very much. (cue/mix, 3 for master EQ, master level, cue level)
  • 4 buttons of some kind, ideally with feedback lights. (cue/pfl)
  • Smaller than 19". Ideally about 10-12" wide. (height/depth don’t matter)

I’ve thought about using my Maschine for it, but the vast majority of the device would be unused and the knobs are in the wrong place, too close together, not laid out correctly, and too small. Plus…it just looks wrong for that to me. I guess I could map the pads for IG or something…but I’d never use it and would wonder WTF was happening when I bumped them.

My xone has been packed in its travel case for a few months…I only take it out for house parties and really only use it then because it has balanced outputs and more than enough inputs to accomodate other DJs, but it’s not really simpler than running an FOH mixer and tends to confuse people because it was painted and none of the controls are labeled.

My VCM-600 works fine at home, but of the 150 or so controls on the thing…I have 9 mapped (same as the LPD 8 but without a master EQ…it’s cool but not that necessary). It seems like a complete waste, and it’s too big to carry around just for that.

If you guys don’t have any other suggestions, I’m seriously considering building one from scratch based on the Livid Brain. I have access to a hacker space that would help me fabricate the case, which is really the only part that I’m worried about. You know…that and something I built catastrophically failing in the middle of a set…but I could always throw the LPD8 in my bag as a backup.

So, yeah…you guys know this sh*t better than me…any suggestions, or do I start buying components?

2

What you need is the arc four from monome.org. They are sold out of the four by now but get on their email list and you’ll hear when they’re available again. They are beautiful (couldn’t find pics of the four but they are the same as the two but with the four knobs in one row) though quite pricey – but a lot cheaper than that rotary mixer. If you like to build from scratch I think you can order the parts and do it yourself for cheaper. This will give you your 4 chunky knobs and buttons (the knobs can be pressed) but not your additional pots; so if you want to DIY you could do something really cool with the arc parts and some additional knobs and maybe even a row of arcade buttons…

edit - here’s a review with some pretty pics/vids: http://synth.me/music-gear/arc-high-resolution-controller-monome-announced

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$800 seems absolutely ridiculous for that considering that it’s replacing a $30 piece of hardware. For that price, I could design and fabricate an all-digital no-EQ version of the DJR-400 (yes…I kind of know what I’m talking about…looked at doing that early in the summer and gave up when I got busy again).

I kind of like the idea, but that price is absolutely ridiculously stupid. I like where your head is at, though.

4

I think, personally, that dedicated mixer “controllers” are a thing we’re going to see more and more of soon.

The whole game started out with VCI-100 sized “full” controllers, replacing an entire setup.
Then Pioneer came along and added MIDI to their CDJ’s.
Then it sort of made sense to have midi based deck controllers, since buying a CDJ2000 just for the midi was stupid expensive.
Now a lot of people are using single deck controllers with a four or two channel mixer, and a soundcard on the side.
Allen & Heath are lining up their new series of mixers with built in soundcards, as well as very clever midi controllers with souncards in them as well.

Alongside this, more and more computer based DJ’s are starting to experiment with more advanced setups, and the Ableton Live based DJ has a rapidly advancing and experimental rig with all sorts of weird controllers.

The next logical step is to mix completely internally (which also facilitates switching between traktor and live fairly easily), and having a dedicated MIDI controller that works as a mixer.

I have the problem of not having a really good midi mixer as well. My solution has been to do an APC-80 kind of setup, and use the weirdness and plethora of knobs and faders on the 40 for mixing.

But, I might be wrong, terrible tragedy. But I think the next big thing will be midi mixers.

A cheap nice solution might be the BCR-2000 by Behringer. They’re cheap, very mappable and use encoders.

5

I’ve been interested in getting Stanton’s SCS.1D and SCS.1M. The 1M is a 4-deck mixer controller and has a built in soundcard and, from what I’ve read, is fully MIDI-mappable.

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KILLAMIX ? Although you could probably buy a mixer for that price.

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Cool ideas…but I was actually aware of all of those.

The killamix has too many controls…most of it would go unused. And I’d also feel weird setting it up upside down every time because it’s laid out wrong.

The BCR-2000 feels like crap. It’s–in my opinion–no better for my purposes than the LPD8. It also has too many controls and would be mostly un-mapped, and it’s laid out wrong for what I want.

And the SCS.1m is based on faders, not rotaries. Other than that, it’d probably be okay. It’s also like $600. For that, I could build what I want.

8

Faderfox FX3? Vestax’s VCM-100 or TR-1? There’s gotta be a controller out there somewhere.

But why not build what you want? That could be fun.

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was thinking the very same thing myself recently… pretty tired of all these all-in-one controllers… there’s always some sort of design compromise as they inevitably try to appeal to as many different types of dj’s as possible.

I’d love to see a more compact S4 without the jogwheels.

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Every controller either has too many controls that would wind up unused, is too small/cramped, feels like garbage, or is based on line faders. Also, the VCI-100 is great for what it is, but it’s 100% useless to me. If I were spinning with 2 decks and jog wheels, I’d be spinning with CDJs.

I’m seriously considering building it, as I said above…I was just hoping the DJTT community knew of something I didn’t, because the Livid Builder hardware for what I want would start at about $200 without any controls and the enclosure I have in my head wouldn’t be particularly nice…but it wouldn’t be particularly cheap either…I haven’t found project boxes in the right size, so I’d have to cut it out of sheet metal.

The thing stopping me is mostly cost. I could potentially sell my xone and put the money I would have spent on a controller into an Empath Rotary…and not have to change anything if I spun with decks again. It’d limit me to 3 channels instead of 4, but I honestly prefer that in some ways anyway. Or, I could do the same thing with a Xone:92R. Or I could break down and start saving for the DJR-400. Or if I could find a VMC-004xl, I could mod it to have rotaries instead of faders. Or I could give up and keep spinning with my xone…it just feels weird that a $30 midi controller is closer to what I want than a $1000 mixer except that it feels like it was assembled by trained chipmunks using discarded components.

I literally just want an LPD8 with bigger knobs that are a little farther apart. It’d be nice if it had a row of LEDs that I could (maybe) map to respond to Traktor’s level meter…but that’s it.

I don’t need a lot of control. I don’t need effects controls or deck controls or any of that crap. I don’t need a midi fighter built in. I don’t need or want any faders. I just need 5 to 10 good rotary controls laid out in a not stupid way and 4 buttons. That’s it.

I’d love to see an S4 either with X1s on the side or just the mixer section. Depending on price, it may still not be worth it to me (because I’d immediately take it apart and replace the line faders with rotaries and the whole EQ section might end up never being touched) but I’d still love for it to be available.

11

theres always the x session pro, on sale for 20 dollars. ill find the link in a min

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https://www.pssl.com/!Ws-On8PYS7O4vvNpf3szXw!/Torq-Mix-Lab-Controller-and-Torq-LE-Package

13

What is it about ROTARY that people don’t understand?

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most people don’t want rotaries instead of faders; hence most manufacturers don’t produce controllers like this… and hence why you aren’t getting anyone posting a controller to your liking… it probably doesn’t exist.

15

Cheaper options for DIY brains

gamepad: $10
Nanokontrol: $30 (sometimes you can get all 3 nano’s on ebay for $50 if you watch for it)
xsession pro: $20
UMC32+: $90

The nanokontrol is easier to mod than the xsession from what I understand.
There are some great UMC32 controllers out there if you look for them

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vcm-100

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I’m aware. And, yes, I’m convinced that such a thing doesn’t exist now. I was hoping that the DJTT community had seen something. The killamix thing posted a page or so ago was probably closer than I actually expected. I’d probably look into that except that I’d bet money it’s vaporware and it costs way too much to still be a compromise not because I’m not willing to spend it but because the thing might cost $150 to produce in bulk unless it’s hand built.

I’m not paying that much of a premium for someone to have designed something wrong.

I’m not trying to save money. I’m just not a fan of wasting it on things that are still wrong. There’s a difference.

Please go away.

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@mostapha, no need dude. Guy is new and trying to help and get involved. Give him a break yeah.

19

Sorry.