So, I was on my way to my gig last night in the city when I ran into a bar manager/kinda sorta friend on the way. A little background on our relationship; I had worked with Deion at another bar he was a manager for, I was cool w/ him, he would call me if he needed anything, he ended up leaving that bar for a bigger and better opportunity at another bar.
Anyways a few months back he had hit me up, telling me about how he needed to re-vamp his Saturday nights and he needed new DJ’s, bartenders, etc.. So he asked me if I could do his Saturday nights, but I told him I already have my Saturday nights booked. So when I saw Deion last night I asked him how the new night is going, he told me he was having a real problem finding competent DJ’s.
He needs at least 2 DJ’s a night (2 different floors), and he told me he’s basically been bringing in guys on a 2 week trial basis and after that he would make his decision on his final line-up. The place is basically like a club, but without a dress code BTW. He was saying some of the guys arent even making it past the 1st week.
Anyways, on to the point of the story; Deion told me that he and his Assist. manager came to the conclusion that if the DJ uses a controller they arent even going to book them anymore. So I asked him why that was, and he told me that at 1st he didnt care, in fact he remembers I used to bring in a controller to his old spot every once in awhile, but after awhile he noticed that the controller DJ’s were the ones he had the most problems with (clipping, crashes/sound drop outs, “weird” music selection, basic noob stuff I guess).
So he was saying that it might be stereotyping, but that he has a night to run, and he cant afford to have another unqualified DJ ruin a night, so if a DJ says they use a controller it’s a red flag I guess.
I think it kinda sucks, but I understand where he’s coming from. I do agree that most new DJ’s do use MIDI controllers. What do you guys think???
I mean if you look at it from a owner standpoint - He doesn’t want people to mess up, but the thing is only “sometimes” do they crash and it depends on few things like what your running, tempature.
Usually the prejudice is that you’re arent a real DJ if you don’t use CDJ’s/TT’s and if you use SYNC and bla bla bla. This is a little different. This guy is talking about trying to keep out newer uncompotent DJ’s.
Why is the guy correct ? I’ll explain you, trying not to be harsh.
If you want to find out why something’s wrong, check these 3 factors : power, sex, money.
In this case, it’s all about money.
Controllers are cheap, and it’s a nice way to get into DJing with. Almost anyone can pop $400 and get an S2 and say “I’m a DJ”. I can totally understand not anyone can get CDJs and stuff, but the “low-cost” DJing is the reason of the hate. I have mixed feelings about this, but in a way I support this.
Before, because equipement was expensive, you had to really be into the thing you know. Gear was a serious investement, you thought about it for a long time, and one you decided to buy your stuff, you really wanted to be good, because of the money you spent.
Now, any kid can get a shitty controller, a pirated DJing software, and download youtube rips. And they are polluating the industry with their flanger-based sets.
Just look at this forum. S2 mega-sale, super cheap. Result ? For few months now the number of repetitive threads about first gig, headphones, etc has increased alot. It’s sad, because accessible DJ gear allowed loads of talent to prove what they were capable of, but I wish DJ gear stayed expensive. Money was a pre-selection, sorting all the wanabees that just want to act cool by being the DJ.
Ease of access waters down the talent pool. I know the easy thing (and correct) is to defend digital mediums like controllers by saying you just have to step your game up, but it’s just not that simple. If it were, club owners wouldn’t have negative outlooks on this stuff. If a needle in a haystack is gold and encrusted in diamonds, while it’s gonna stick out a lot more than an average needle, it’s still gonna be next to impossible to find. Unfortunately, the explosion of EDM’s popularity combined with the next to nothing cost of start up has mad the ratio of shit to talent go up.
Now I want to add before I say this next bit that I use sync and I have NO issues with that at all. BUT… When I first started to mix it was all about beatmatching and you wouldn’t ever put yourself forward for a gig until you were super confident that your beatmatching was perfect. Now this took time. A LOT of time and practice and with that practice you also developed a deeper knowledge of your music collection, phrasing and most of all what to play and when. This meant that when you then had the confidence to gig you actually understood a lot of things. The problem with controllers and sync is that it gives people the (false) confidence to gig out and they haven’t had the time to develop that deeper understanding and when they play in the real world and not just their bedrooms they don’t know their tunes, they can’t phrase for shit and they dont know what to play and when. I can’t recall how many times I’ve seen threads where people say that they have been mixing for a month and want to get gigs. In my opinion a month just isn’t enough time to perfect your craft enought to the point of playing out.
Like I said I’m an advocate of controllers and the sync button but it can breed a false sense of readiness in my opinion. And I think this contributes to the prejudice.
As I mentioned in a previous thread, its the same in any industry where computers rule the roost .. Web Development, Graphic Design, Music Production etc ..
I can’t imagine a web development firm hiring a member of staff that can’t hand code a website regardless of them being able to fire up dreamweaver and drag and drop a site together.
I think he just needs to stop hiring bad djs. I’ve seen a few guys who use cdjs, and are absolutely horrible (think flanger and filter every 10 seconds), but they think they’re amazing because they don’t use a laptop.
As for all the sound quality stuff, I think if your using a controller, its important to show up early to set up and make sure everything sounds alright and is stable.
I dont see the relevance to DJ controllerism at all. I think the problem lays within his selection process, hes giving every shit DJ in town a saturday night slot
I’d he’s giving local noobs a shot good on him. Why not run an open decks night on a normally quiet night? Bar tab and a job as the prize. End up with several wannabes who all bring their crew and buy drinks. Hopefully one of them is good enough to handle a Saturday.
Otherwise, poach a pro from around town or put more effort into interview/audition.
Edit. So, to the thread topic. The prejudice is somewhat justified due to the experiences. But there are ways to deal with it coz its not a sensible way to book djs; based on their kit.
I played an open decks night similar to that recently. Two new DJ’s every Monday night for six or so weeks. I had a cha to the manager after I finished, and he was saying he nearly wrote me off when I showed up with my Twitch (which does looks bit toylike). Apparently he’d had issues with the others who brought controllers suffering poor mixing techniques, dropouts, crashes and being rude. I guess it ties in to the fact that anyone with a couple of hundred can drop it on a controller and call themselves a DJ without actually learning anything.
The best you can do in that situation is to be courteous and play well. If they have one image in their mind about a controllerist, then show them another one. Get to know the sound system, make sure all your gear is working well, and if it isn’t bring a USB or some CDs/records.
That’s a very good idea actually. Bring in some extra clientele on a slow night, and avoid scaring away your clientele on the weekend. It’s a common tactic in band world actually: You start a band, you play lots of sunday-thursday gigs in dives and community centers, a promoter notices you, you get booked to open for a small time touring act, you play your ass off, you get booked for a bigger touring act, repeat, repeat, groupies, blow, broken guitar strings. repeat.
The thing that stuck out to me in the OP was the part about song selection, it was stated that people were playing “weird” tracks. IMO there is no relation between that and controllerism, the real issue is that someone is too lazy to do their research before they give joe schmoe a go on a prime club night. I think most DJs are pretty open about what they play, some play Top 40, some don’t, some play a mix. I don’t think any of us are shy about this preference, you can talk to a fellow DJ for 5 minutes and you’ll know his top 10 favourite songs, in order. Somebody needs to start thinking with their noodle.
Every time tehcnology make a step… There is always somebody hating!!!
From vinyl to cds, to mp3s… from the turntable to the laptop, to the ipad… from traktor to serato, to ableton!!!
there is always somebody hating something. As a example, last night i have a gig with some friends, one of them use serato, and it was “hating” about traktor, and that serato its the new standard industry…
All I say is the hell with standards, haters, and club owners, all that matters is music!!!
I understand that he doesn’t want to deal with the issues that come up with using a controller. i help run a night and even though we always use the same set up, external mixer + s4, random problems always seem to come up. luckily i’m pretty good at troubleshooting and the venue gives me tons of freedom to mess around with the sound equipment to solve the problems without anyone noticing. i’d imagine if i would have a much harder time at other venues where i dont have this freedom. with that said, when gigging out, i would ALWAYS show up early to do a soundcheck and make sure everything is ready to go when using a controller. too many factors can go into a problem but they can easily be fixed with a bit of preparation and experience
