DJ’s switching back to hardware article, and a FB post from a house music legend.
So that article was fairly interesting. Kind of a cool insight into everyone’s choices and where they (possibly) seem to be evolving to. Ironically, a few hours after I saw the article, house music legend Kenny Summit made this post to his Facebook page regarding his club in L.A.
To me, it almost pushes a thought I’ve been personally having. I LOVE Traktor, and personally think it’s a better way to play that offers more possibilities. That said, the article and his post in one day almost push me over the edge on the though I’ve been having about moving to record box and away from the laptop to a more standard club set up.
Comments on the article are encouraged, but what do you guys think about the new policy at Cure and Cause? What do you think about the possible changing gear climate?
The feeling I get comes back to this quote from the article:
When I was at a non-commercial college radio station we have several different DJs (where in this case “DJ” means someone actively mixing songs, NOT typical builds a playlist to play through each song as a whole and interjects between songs DJ) of varying levels of experience. Most used controllers because they were cheaper and easier to transport. A few were CDJ or turntable based without a computer in the fray. And everyone was just as serious a DJ in my opinion. One of the consistently best and on-point DJs (and guy who was invaluable to expanding my ability as well) learned using a Mixtrack Pro and VirtualDJ. One the crappiest attitudes of the DJs I dealt with was the guy with a full Pioneer CDJ/Mixer setup. And vice-versa.
tl;dr: The gear doesn’t make the DJ. I’d rather go out to a set where a DJ has complete mastery of a controller and it’s software and uses the two in innovative ways, than go to a set where a DJ is adequately using “industry standards”
I think we are realizing that even with the amazing software tools available to us, in 2016 a great number of DJs still sound like they are mixing deck A to B and back as if on CDJs.
We have these outrageously powerful tools in software but people are tired of bringing expensive laptops and controller rigs to hostile environments if they are still going to end up sounding like anyone else on modern CDJs with a waveform, quick loops, and a sync button. Putting those basic features on CDJs has progressed mainstream DJing far more than remix slots and four-deck live mashups with an S4 has.
I believe there is a very, very small minority of Traktor or Serato users outside of niche genres like techno that use more than simple two deck mixing on a regular basis and in a way that actually affects the mix in creative and novel ways.
Native Instruments created a beautiful and complex musical instrument, sold it to disc jockeys and selectors, and now we are finding out that most of us really only use it to be disc jockeys and selectors instead of the genre-bending boundary-pushing beat astronauts we thought we’d become. Out of thousands of users out there in the world today, very few of us are actually using the software as a performance or studio instrument beyond A to B mixing with loops and effects.
I am not saying you shouldn’t push boundaries to be that four deck midifighter youtube beat astronaut. I am saying that we should recognize when we think we are progressing radically but actually are maintaining the status quo.
That guy has probably spent more time with more software AND hardware than 90% of this board. lol
I’ve definitely felt the same way as far as there being no reason to focus on what you play on vs how good you can play. That said, having a “standard setup” really does sort of force the cream to rise to the top when a standard is in place.
Reading further into the thread on facebook, I also saw some valid points from them… as a venue, a single standard setup eliminates problems they’ve had with people not really leaving things as they’ve found them when it comes to people bringing in equipment, and cuts down on “set up issues”.
I don’t really know him so I might be making up assumptions.
I just find his logic full of faults. If you want to say CDJs only for setup reasons, sure that’s fine. But saying CDJs only because only skilled people can use CDJs is absolutely absurd. Just look at the DDJ-SZ which is pretty much the exact same as a 2 CDJ setup.
Yeah, that’s just old guy tribalism and gatekeeping behavior. But it’s his club so it his right to be just another old guy gatekeeping what he thinks are either professional tools or toys.
I especially like the part where controllers are allowed if you’re doing something that he is already aesthetically familiar with like a DMC routine or controlling a Ritchie Hawtin spaceship cockpit. It’s just so telling of where he’s coming from with this.
If his reasons were along the lines of “we don’t want extra cables and gear crowding up the booth” or “they make changeovers a nightmare in here” or something like that I’d be more sympathetic, but I don’t have a high view of that FB post either. I’m not impressed with someone’s bonafides, past achievements, or authority if they don’t display the ability to think flexibly and understand change.
This is probably what’s pissed this Kenny Summit guy off tbh.. the lack of creativity of those who bring creative tools into the zone. Must of had a bad experience with one (or more) of those DJ’s..
If it sounds good coming out of the speakers then I don’t really care what people are using. I have heard amazing sets done on turntables, cdjs and controllers aswell as bad sets done on turntables, cdjs and controllers. People tend to get annoyed when something comes along that changes the game and makes something easier for people to do than what took someone else years to master on old kit. In my opinion CDJs are controllers once you plug that USB stick in anyway. Who wants to spend hours sorting through vinyl and damaging their spine whilst lugging a heavy box around gig to gig? who wants to spend hours burning cds and printing out the tracklists for them? again lugging around a massive cd wallet? Times change, technology moves on, we are all doing this (or should be doing this) for the love of music - embrace it, share it and enjoy it. Opinions like this just divide us on something we all love doing and it makes others feel inadequate when they should not have to feel that way for doing what they enjoy the way they want to do it
He has a point - why turn up with loads of extra gear when all you need is a USB stick these days.
CDJ’s have moved on from the 1000’s - you don’t need a laptop any-more for this type of club.
I think that a large amount of people have been buying controllers and using traktor and serato to DJ purely because it is the cheaper option. These guys get used to using this kit at home as for some newer DJs it is all they have used and so they want to take it into a club to bring their familiar mixing environment with them.
My intention with Traktor is to use 3 track decks with loops and play samples and percussion loops on the 4th deck with an F1. I bought the MM-1 mixer because it is a cheaper option over a xone 92 (I’d buy one in a heartbeat if I had the cash). Now with the new Pioneer Toraiz coming out it will be possible to do exactly what I do in Traktor with 3 CDJs and the Toraiz… However I don’t have £7,500 spare to buy that equipment for home to practise on.
Whilst the author of that facebook post seems to have good intentions the post seems aimed at the kind of person I describe above, if that club’s head liner sends over his rider which includes clearing space for his S8 or SZ do you think they will cancel the booking with him? If a young kid turning up there to play his first ever gig outside his bedroom arrives with a controller they probably will tell him he can’t play.
Technology has made DJing more open and accessible than it has ever been before, of course the negative to this is it means a lot of people are using technology to short cut learning the skills that most of us built our careers on. The positive is that more musically but less DJ oriented people are stepping into the booth and with the aid of software are re-writing the rules and blurring the lines between DJ and live performance.
Your last paragraph is quite on point. Technology should force us to up our game and be more creative than simply mixing A and B. I do understand that setups may be cumbersome in the booths to set up but maybe the booth itself and the equipment in them need to also reflect the times.
Also if others would create stand alone solutions (I’m looking at you NI) that would be fantastic, in the end I loathe the fact that only one manufacturer dominates - monopolies kill innovation and breeds stagnation.
Yeah the size of the kit is definitely a negative point. I’ve been there myself as a promoter, one night springs to mind back in 2009 at a night in a tiny club with a very small booth, all of us were playing vinyl on a pair of 1210s with a 2 channel mixer until one DJ turned up with the new NS7… That thing was a monster, on the outside I was smiling and telling him ‘don’t worry we’ll help get it set up’ but inside I was thinking ‘FFS we’ve got to juggle all the equipment round whilst another DJ is playing to get this thing to fit’
I’ve had a couple of controllers myself over the years, the standalone Stanton SCS4.DJ was one of the best, I bought it mostly whilst doing radio shows so I could present the shows from home or friends houses without carting a load of kit with me. However the couple of times I did play in a club with it it was a pain in the arse getting enough room to fit it in. At least with a modular set up I can squeeze my X1s next to the clubs mixer… Not that I think I’ll ever be playing out again.
Lot’s of people around here use a laptop with 1 or 2 X1’s and usually an Audio 8/10.
Very few use an all-in-one controller, can’t remember the last time I saw one - think it was about 3 years ago.
Yeah I’ve seen more modular set ups than people showing up to clubs with full sized controllers, even with modular it still means connecting the audio interface to the clubs mixer (unless they have a mixer with one built in or a patchbay).
More club installations should use a coffin for the gear in the booth. Create a sturdy table space for alternative equipment by latching the lid on top and covering the Pioneer stuff. Personally I’ve never seen this done in the wild but have always thought it would solve so many problems.
Additional nice-to-haves: Install a patch bay that includes a bypass of the DJM for when it’s covered up. Run additional power outlets in that are accessible to someone besides a tech or the club manager crawling under the booth.
Wouldnt that be nice? Would make sense to protect their decks and cdjs too. I cringe whenever people have to put stuff on top of a tech12 but sometimes its so cramped you have to
Also, curious… would you say it’s true or false that there is more talent in a DJ who can show up and rock it just as hard with whatever is provided vs someone who needs a specific setup to rock their own way?
I guess my issue is that while I DEFINITELY don’t think it matters what you use, I have a hard time arguing the logic that the guy who has no issue with gear restrictions and plays on everything is better than the niche guy.
Back when I first started, you could have played on CD players, but they were no where near standard (or worth a shit really). That standard set up forced the cream to rise. Sort of a “here’s what your given. Let’s see what you’ve got.”
I think there are a few different ways of looking at this, I’m sure that if 90% of bedroom DJs making their first move into clubland could afford a full CDJ & DJM set up at home they would buy one and would turn up to the club with rekordbox prepped USBs and play a set on equipment they know and love.
In certain genres of music the niche guys you talk about are the ones who are really pushing the envelope of what is possible, bringing their ableton push or maschine, or TR-8 with them and integrating that into their set… truly making something unique for that club and that crowd that would be difficult to reproduce again. That’s what some clubs and some audiences pay for.
If you use the term niche guy to refer to the guy who needs space for his mixtrack pro and laptop with virtual DJ because that’s all he can use then yeah I fully understand, but back to my first point that this guy could be using this kit either because he’s been priced out of buying and practising on the standard equipment (can’t really blame him for that) or he is lazy and wants to let the software do a lot of the work for him (in this case he shouldn’t have been booked in the first place).
