Explain It Like I'm Five - DJ Controllers

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
1

Explain It Like I’m Five - DJ Controllers

I get the concept in general (I think), but I’m not 100% clear on how it all comes together. Perhaps the best way to approach it is to present where I am at currently, and why I am asking. I tried to read all of the relevant stickies, but my bad if I overlooked something.

I have been spinning about 2.5 years using Tech 1200s, Rane TTM-56, and Scratch Live. I spin mostly oldschool/underground hip hop and funk/soul, with some 80s, rock, and electronic mixed in there as well. Almost all of my music is digital. I am mostly a bedroom DJ, but I do some house parties and whatnot, and would like to branch off into some clubs/bars in the coming year (although for a club/bar gig, I would most likely be looking to bring my Techs, so not really relevant to this thread).

I would sooner give up my left testicle than my Techs/Rane, but being home for the winter break I can’t ignore how awesome it would be if I could just pack up single piece of gear and be able to spin at some friends’ house parties while I am back in town and don’t have my full setup.

So basically, I would like to get something that would allow me to mix without using my Techs, but I am not looking for it to be my primary or preferred setup. I am more just looking for something that can be quick and easy and readily transportable, and concede that it may not be as flexible/responsive as my current setup. In other words, I don’t have the desire or willingness to spend to make it THAT flexible of a setup; I would much prefer my Techs, but I just want it as something I can fall back on when I am flying home and can’t pack my Techs, or space is too limited, etc etc

The need for employing an external mixer would be fine with me, since mixers are relatively easy to transport, and I already have solid mixers in both my temporary and permanent zip codes.

I would also like something that I can easily integrate with Scratch Live, as I have spent countless hours getting my library organized in a way that I like.

I would like to keep it under $200 max, and I would also prefer to build it myself for the DIY aspect and nostalgia, assuming it is not overly complicated.

That said, here are my current questions:

  1. Could somebody link me up to a thorough explanation of how DJ controllers work and the nuances between different configurations?

  2. Is it possible to build a basic DJ controller that can do what I am asking? Since I like to spin a lot of hip hop which uses scratching, and funk/soul that has live drummers, it seems like I would want my controller to have some sort of jog wheel, but I haven’t seen any DIY builds that included a jog wheel. Can the need for a jog wheel be replaced by good planning ahead of time (making sure tracks are beatgridded properly, etc)? Is my understanding of the jog wheel’s uses off-base?

  3. If a DIY controller is not an alternative, what models would match my needs in the sub-$200 range? I am open to buying used.

  4. Is there a DIY build or OEM controller that could serve both the purpose previously mentioned, but also compliment my Technics setup similar to the way the Dicer does?

Thanks in advance for responses!

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Under 200 I’d say go for a Numark mix track pro with itch intro (you can use your existing Live Crates) for simplicity’s sake, i’d be saying go with something like that, if you REALLY need to use your serato crates it’d seem the way to go without converting them all to Traktors format.

I can’t really think of another Sub $200 controller that will give you that flexibility.

It’ll give you everything you need pretty much plug and play sound card, touch sensitive jogs etc … included, no need to bring out your live box either.

AND its pre-mapped … no need to start customizing stuffs.

If you want to go the trakor route you can use the Live>Traktor import tool to convert your grids/ cues/ loops etc. and take your pick on controllers, it’d just be a pain doing that all the time.

Maybe look at EKS XP-5’s, they would basically operate like 2x turntables each side of a Mixer and seen them go second hand really cheap on ebay… I like the idea of individual “decks” each side of a mixer, some people want all-in-one.

Most Midi controllers could be used to compliment your setup, the two I mentioned above can be and the EKS can be mapped to Live (once you use your own Live Box)

DIY for 200 bucks and usable jog wheels .. umm not really worth it IMHO.

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I like the idea of individual decks with a dedicated mixer as well, as it would allow me to use my TTM-56, which means I could do some scratching and I would expect sound quality to be better coming out of the Rane rather than the Numark Mixtrack.

However, the XP-5 looked extremely plasticy to me, and it could be nice having everything in one piece of equipment without the need for an external mixer as it is with the Numark. I understand I can’t get the highest quality with a $200 budget, but at the same time I refuse to buy crap. How does the construction of the XP-5 compare to the Numark Mixtrack? What would be the “next step up” from the XP-5 if I wanted a similar two-controller setup with a bit better construction?

Also, like I said, I am really new to controllers. Do I really need a jog wheel? What purposes does the jog wheel serve? My understanding is that it could be used to nudge a track into alignment, could be used for some light scratching, and could be used to scroll through tracks and whatnot. Am I correct in this understanding? Is there anything I am missing?

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For a small party the sound quality is going to be negligible. I take my VCI-300 to small parties and I DJ just the same with it, as if I were on my turntables or CDJ’s. The work flow is the same in Itch and SSL, and the jog response on the 300 is great for scratching. however a used one will run you 300-400 bucks. If you want to use your 56 with your SSL box, you can get an X1 if you don’t want jogs. Me personally I prefer jog wheels, just feels natural. You could try to find a single jog wheel controller and play one deck at time doing instant doubles. There’s nothing really to explain. Your 1200’s using timecode are essentially a controller. The XP-5 would be doing the same only on a smaller scale. If I only had 200 bucks and just wanted to play some small jam sessions at friends house the Mixtrack and Serato Intro would be my first option as well, or the Vestax Typhoon/Spin I think also works with Intro. It’s a little limited, but for a small party, you get the same workflow that you are used to with SSL along with a handful of effects.

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you don’t NEED a jogwheel, except to scratch. Take the Kontrol X1 controller for example: it has pitchbend buttons and I have mine configured so I can control independent deck BPMs. I don’t scratch though..

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Get an NI X1 and run Serato in internal mode (no relative/absolute). You lose the flexibility of timecode/jogs but you can still run full serato instead of intro. You’ll need to carry your serato box along with mixer. It will be frustrating though if you don’t like mixing with push buttons. You’d have a lot more flexibility if you’re willing to go the Traktor route; there just aren’t that many all in one itch controllers, and you can’t just use a M-Audio X-Sessions Pro (cheap and reliable MIDI mixer) to control Itch. But if you’re cool with lugging an external mixer I’d say an X-1 or the like is the way to go. You could even get the Denon controller that is made for Serato but I think the X1 is better and cheaper.

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Thanks for all the replies everyone

I’m still not clear on exactly what all “flexibility” a jog wheel gives me over a push-button setup. As I mentioned earlier, my understanding is:

Is there any other flexibility that a jog wheel offers that I am missing? Sorry for the noob questions, but I still haven’t found a really good intro guide controllers. If somebody knows of such a guide it might save forum members and myself some time in responding to noobish questions, and allow me to target my questions a bit better.

As I mentioned, I am open to an external mixer setup if it offers any significant advantages, but the more I think about it the more I am thinking it would be extremely convenient to have it all in one package, seeing as the entire reason I am even considering a controller is convenience and mobility…

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That’s the main thing, yes, nudging and manipulating the track as you would a record. You can program the jog wheel to do other stuff in traktor, pretty much whatever a knob can do, but keeping things simple, yes, it’s for moving the track around by hand or scrolling through tracks.

If you really want all in one unit, be prepared to either go with the more limited Serato Intro version (or a more expensive Itch controller) or to switch to Traktor.

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[QUOTE=Redcon1;404662]Thanks for all the replies everyone

Tbh mate your not going to get a decent controller with $200, and for scratching a lot of the cheaper controllers aren’t very good.

You might want to go with a used vci 100 on ebay, and update it with 1.4 firmware (dj tech tools has tutorials on this). This is in your price range and is still imo the best all in one controller for the price.

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Gotcha, thanks again for the reply.

I really like the look/layout of the VCI-300. If I could find a steal on that in the $250 range, that might be a possibility ($200 is not an absolute, just around where I would like to spend). Otherwise, the VCI-100 looks like a good option, although I’m not a fan of the line-fader eq’s. But tbh who am I kidding, mixing mostly hip hop and funk/soul, my eq’s don’t get the attention a house/trance/etc DJ would give them, and are not really a deal-breaker.

As far as Traktor, I am not opposed to using the Traktor software for this setup, the main thing is I don’t want to have to go through my Serato library and set all my cue points, loops, etc all over again. My understanding is that Traktor or some other external program has the ability to transfer these Serato instances to a Traktor library? If that is the case, then I would definitely consider using a Traktor compatible controller.

With that consideration, what other Itch or Traktor compatible controllers would be good to consider? Also, any other controllers similar to the XP-5 that may be of a bit better build quality?

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In the Netherlands we call this “voor een duppie op de eerste rang zitten”. Feel free to look that up:stuck_out_tongue:

Don’t expect that you can fulfill al those wishes by spending just $200. Considering you would want to do some scratching as well, I think the best solution for you is the Vestax VCI-300. I think you can even transport the library you made in SSL into ITCH, and the jogs are one of the better ones out there.
Little chance any other controller can fulfill your wishes better for that price, especially of the ones below 200$. And if you want jogs (which I think you do), I won’t even get started about DIY.

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I translated to “an ass sitting at ringside” :confused:

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^ click the picture ^
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I like the look of the twich as another itch option. no jogs but looks pretty fun and rockable.

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I’d say that keeping it low budget, wanting to stick with Serato’s product line, people have given you some really good suggestions.

One thing that may be viable for you as well, is the VFX-1 addon controller for the VCI-300 ALSO works with SSL. So you could potentially incorporate that into both a mobile setup and your TT setup down the line.

Personally I have a similar feeling of loving my 1200’s and TTM-56, but it is a pain to bring around. I’m not actively looking for something right now (since most of my buddies have TT’s and so it’s more of just bringing my control vinyl, computer, serato box, and needles/slipmats) but I’ve thought about having a more mobile setup.

For this, I think the VCI-300 is probably the perfect controller. You can also look at the Xone DX or the Twitch, but the 300 is really the “controller” simple version of 2 decks and a mixer. That’s probably what I will end up buying myself down the line for mobile business.

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If i went back to Serato i’d want a vci 300 mk2 though and they’re pricey…

For me thats kind of the beauty of traktor, i love my technics but i use my controller a lot and it’s just better for that IMO

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I’d originally said the Numark due to its serato compatibility out of the box as well as its pretty decent Price to Performance ratio.

But seeing as stuff well above the $200 bracket is being mentioned, I’ll air my views.

The VCI-300 : Nice quality kit, decent, but never seen one go for less than $350 S/H

The Typhoon: Really really didn’t like its layout or build, IMHO the Numark feels as good if not better, I HATE the fader EQ’s.

The VCI 100 “Mk2”: is the only one 100 supported by Serato Intro and almost the same price as the VCI-300,

VCI 100 Mk1: you’d need to map Live OR convert to a different software e.g. traktor, I hate with a passion that its not symmetrical, other than that built like a tank and can be had cheap enough.

The Xone DX might be worth a look, prices have dropped recently to the $500 level brand new. Bear in mind that its got a built in 10x10 Allen&Heath audio interface as well as a top notch mixer and built like, well an Allen & Heath.

Its a Quality All-in-one box IMHO and you won’t need to go external on the mixer,

But may be way way above your price range, I just mention it as it might save possibly converting crates, outgrowing a controller and needing to wire individual controllers up every gig.

For Individual “decks” the reloop has been mentioned, might be worth a look at the EKS outus as well seeing as they are down to 1/2 price ATM.

http://www.htfr.com/product.php?productID=278846

Its really a toss up between quality vs flexibility vs price of your setup.

I know you originally said $200 … but if you can stretch it you’ll get something that will last for years and sound/feel like quality.

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http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2011/12/dj-midi-controllers-buyers-guide-2012/

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Short way of explaining it DJ controllers are software controllers which means it controls everything within the software you are using

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If you mainly play soul/funk, this is a complete no-brainer. Get an Itch controller, especially as you’re already an SSL user. Itch controllers have reasonably high resolution pitch faders, unlike cheap Traktor gear, and good jog feel, unlike cheap Traktor gear. Itch also has an actual vinyl brake in its decks, unlike Traktor.

I’d say definitely get something with jogs, unless you like the prospect of using the mouse to cue up tracks, not being able to scratch, and having to use buttons for pitch bend. A second hand VCI-300 would be a great option. It’ll be a no-fuss drop-in replacement for the big rig.

If the 300 is just too costly, get something cheaper that runs Serato Intro. Same thing for the basics, but you’ll probably get worse pitch and jog response. (I haven’t seen any reports indicating that Intro would have 14-bit pitch, or HID platter control)