I just dont get it....?

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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I just dont get it…?

First off - I will say that you guys have a great resource here! Seems like unbiased and good advice around! And I love it how there are people making improvements and mofdifying!

Now to the rant (!)

Computer DJing has beena round for some time now. Its pretty confirmed as the general trend forward. There are some great software packages out there - each with respective benefits depending on how you want to use them.

So WHY ON EARTH IS THE DJ CONTROLLER MARKET SO POOR?!!

I mean - this is surely not rocket science?

Take my current needs:

A large ‘Xponent-like’ controller that can control a 4 deck set-uo (Traktor) which has high quality build/comonents (not toy-like Xponent). With a generous collection of FX control and track selection control which can be user defined…

As a ‘high-quality’ developer - why do Vestax ship all their units with puny 45mm tempo faders? Is there a resolution limitation with the pitch range via controller? Maybe Im the only one who like to beatmatch anymore? And why cant they just make an enlarged controller - perhaps with a laptop stand at the back…?
And VCI400 - no pitch wheels!!!??? Does that mean people in Traktor dont beatmix?
Numark also guilty of puny tempo faders and limited FX control - choosing to make baby toy like controllers?!

This DJTechpro Hybrid again interesting - but chunky as hell! Difficult to move and looks a bit toy-like and limited…:

http://www.djtechpro.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=286&sub_id=105

I just dont get it. Surely there is a gap in the market…?

One of the companies that seems respectable is EKs with their OTUS - but thats quite expensive - and tough to lug around. Scores highly with me although I think it might be style over function…plus I’d need 2 to kontrol 4 decks in Traktor ($$$phew!)

I have been building over this last 2 year my dance music production studio - and taken a break from DJing. Ive ditched my 1200s and did a stint using Ableton to DJ out. However it became a bit dull - just stacking tracks - even if I was creative with them…I think I want to keep production and Mixing seperate.

So Im looking back into this field and it seems so frustrating. In audio production in most production areas it seems you can find (even very specific) the right tool for you. However in the computer DJ controller area - Im pulling my hair out!

Im seriously consideirng an Xponent - but felt like - what is the point in such redundancy in buying one - -then using it WITH Traktor and WITHOUT the soundcard and Torq I paid for…

It all seems ridiculous…cant SOMEONE make a decent, large, user customiserble control…?

Sorry for the rant. If Ive missed my dream solution out there please let me know!

:sunglasses:

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I think that the most complicated design challenge for a cotroller is that everybody use it in a different way. For instance you want to control 4 decks, so the controller manufacturer assumes that no bit matching is involve because the software will do it, so they design an excellent controller for that purposes (VCM-400) but left out the wheels and nice big pitch faders. So now you can´t manually beatmatch. IT is a game of giving and taking.

I think that a whole unit for everything (4 deck controll, multiple effects control, jogwheel, pitch faders etc…) is out of the scope for most of controller´s manufaturer because they will end up with a product that is too big and expesive (ex: Xone 4d). On the other side you have the paradigm that laptop djing is good because you don´t need to carry 2 huge TTs and another huge crate of records. So now you will need to carry an enormous controller? It doesn´t make much sene, considering that dj booth at clubs are small…

As you can see try to put yourself on the shoes of a controller designer, there are too many things to put on a scale before you can start designing anything. My prediction is this technology has not been long so much, so in a few more years there will be lots of contrllers, and you will be able to choose the one that is best for you. Also designers will manage to build smaller parts so they can fit more in a smaller cotroller. Today the best option is to buy a combination of controllers which will allow you to work with the software of your preference in the way you want.

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I know some of Numark’s current controlers look like childrens toys, but the new NS7 looks pretty amazing. Hopefully they didn’t drop the ball on the quality side of things.

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Its true Alien - size is an important issue. However I guess I wasnt clear in that I use 2 decks most of the time - but would like the ability to switch a 2 deck layout (such as VCI100/Xponent) to decks 3 and 4 with a switch. So there is not so much need for double-up…

Really if they did a ‘better Xponent’ or a VCI400 with jog wheels (extending the unit depth a bit - not the end of the world) - and made gig bags for them - I would be loving it…I wonder maybe no-one esle is on the same page as me…?

Nate-the N7 looks great - but not really portable - and not great for FX/House DJs. GREAT for Hip HOp…Overkill for House and electronica where you want FX and dont need such heavy scratch facilities…

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The NS7 only has controls for 2 decks :disappointed:

I think the Stanton SC system has a better layout personally - but its expensive :disappointed:

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I use the vci-100 for controlling 4 decks, it works fine. But I would like a joystick as the one on the vcm-400 to change decks. Now I am lacking cotrollers for effects, on the vci I just controll the effects for 1 deck at a time. Now I am looking for a smaller unit which I can dedicate for effects. But not the ideal setup though. Mobility is a main issue for me.
And yes a vestax bag for a vci would be awesome!

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Bummer about the NS7, although I should have remembered that it was specifically designed for the Serato Itch Software… Duh:stuck_out_tongue:

No worry’s, my VCI-100SE should be in any day now.:smiley:

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maybe look at the Novation Nocturn?

Im considering one of those…

THat plus a VCI100 would be pretty neat.

Its only the tempo slider holding me back with the combination of VCI100 + Nocturn…it looks way too short and difficult for mixing…How do you find it?

Also - is the MIDI resolution fine enough for accuracy with the jog wheels and tempo slider?

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Hmmm funny you sayed so. Actually there was a contest on this site and I won a nocturn, but unfortunately novation friends have not send it yet so I am waiting to see how the setup you described is going to work. I wanted to assing all the effects and maybe others to the nocturn.

Also I forgot to mention that i mix externally, so I dont use the VCI for software mixing.

Your conern about the tempo sliders is true. At first I thought they were useless, but with a little practice and gentle touchs I am now used to them. I practice manual beatmatch regularly and I usually end at ± 0.1 from the other song bpm using those sliders and Traktor 3. I also play with another friend and he uses TTs and I can beatmatch perfectly with the VCI, so I would say GO FOR IT!

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ooh the SCS series looks interesting. I dunno something is not right about them tho. What I like about the NS7 is that it is in some way embracing the digital future - by making it smaller and adding other features and for that model working with the regarded ‘scratch / Hip Hop application’. If I was still a scratch DJ I would go for the NS7…looks wicked for that…

With this Standton SCS it looks like they are clinging onto the old turntable paradigm in a way that is bulky, tacky-looking and probably budget sounding - yet expensive as well. …FWIW I think that ‘Da Scratch’ thing looks rubbish (although an interesting concept)…cant see many Turntablists using that!

Why these manufacturers try to trick us be claiming 96Khz (or even 196!!) audio makes it a good interface I dont know. No-one plays back at that sample-rate on tracks that have been recorded and mixed down to 44.1. Anyone who knows, knows that it is the quality of D/A converters that is most important in these interfaces - not how high the sample rate goes…

An Apogee Duet would likely Im sure sh*t on it if you only need stereo out…

I dont want to sound like an arse - but coming from a production background - its depressing to see the marketing sh*te they try to pull on DJ consumers…

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Thanks for the response. You should put some pressure on Novation! They are good guys - very nice - give them a call.

Yeah Im considering the VCI100…but this slider thing is an irritation. In a club situation I want to have my life made easier - not to have to strain to move the slider the ‘perfectly tiny amount’. I like to vibe and enjoy the mix - not become a surgeon :wink:. And Id rather not get into the habit of using the sync - that why Ableton got so dull. I got bored in my own sets - how sh*t is that!! Thats not what its about…:wink:

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it seems to me that what you need is a timecode system plus a midi controller… :slight_smile:

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2 years ago I would have agreed - but I sold one of my 1200s…and now when I look at my other 1200 and my vestax mixtix I wonder - whats the point in that bulky hardware?

To throw in another complication (!) I live in a London flat and my bedroom is mostly full of production gear based around a big DAW workstation and master keyboard - so Im really limited on space for a full 2 deck set-up!

Thanks for the suggestion tho :wink:

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I wouldnt make so many assumptions on the SCS series quality without actually having used one - if you asked me id say the NS7 was clinging onto the basic turntable setup more than the SCS. I have to agree the NS7 looks nicer but i think as for layout the SCS is the winner for mix djs and those of us doing controllerism - the NS7 is way more of a turntablist battle setup.

The SCS3d DaScratch is a pretty epic litte controller and not something to cough about, sure your not going to see hardcore turntablism routine on it but you will see a digital vinyl turntablist use it next to their setup to controll all the sorts of things they cant get their turntables to do. Just because something cant be used for turntablism doesnt mean its not good - i happen to own a dascratch and i think it is a very good controller that i couldnt live without. Infact my whole setup is crap for turntablism, but does that mean its a crap setup ? Hell no !

You will probably find the Eks Otus isnt that great for turntablism either.

I agree there, the only reason anyone would need a higher sample rate is for in the studio, even then you are only recording in a a high sample rate then brining the sample rate down to 44.1Khz - its just standard marketing now because if newbies dont see that it supports such a high sample rate then they wont buy the device.

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I’m with bento. SC system rules. so does da-scratch.

it’s an epic freakin controller. and amazingly useful. if you want mini turntables, no they’re not for you.

but if you want an innovative TOTALLY programmable controller? it’s probably one of the coolest things on the market.

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Started a new thread, I know alien2k and PIGLET will want to check it out. :wink:

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Cool

…So what do you guys use the Da Scratch for?

Maybe its useful for fx? And Nudging whilst mixing…?

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you can use it for everything.

search youtube.

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Mmm a unit containing 2 ‘Da Scratchs’ - a nice mixer section and a nice FX set of knobs and ‘maybe’ another assignable scratch surface would be pretty nice…:wink:

I dunno tho - to me it seems a bit gimmiky even though it looks like a nice idea in theory - and looks well implemented. Probably some will love it and be very creative with it.

I cant see myself enjoying doing little slidey movements to adjust EQs - for example Id rather have a physical knob. (the one in between my legs does not control eq)

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it’s quite easy to scratch with, and because it’s fully programmable it’s great for a variety of things. I used it for nearly all transport functions in traktor and it was perfect.

and with 2 sc3 3d’s you can control 4 decks and more effects/functions than you could dream!

I thought the same as you when it first came out. “Oh great, just some gimmick that’s gonna be terrible at emulating vinyl. Look at us, we’re stanton, we’re jumping on a bandwagon!!” Buuuut, I went to check it out at guitar center back in october, because i was intrigued by the videos. But as with many products I expected to scoff and go hang out in the synth section for a while.

The guys pulled it outta the box and we installed it onto the studio mac and opened ableton. I recognized the Bome’s symbol and went “woah…” and as we started playing with it inside ableton I started to get really excited. I quickly assigned some MIDI, and did a quick controllerism routine with the “metal” samples they had, mixed with the hip hop samples.

We played with it for about an hour before I ended up taking one home for myself.

The hardware is pretty impressive (I craked mine open and took some pictures for Bento). The buttons tend to stick after a few weeks of use, but it’s VERY easy to clean them (just rubber and hardened plastic and very easily removable). And the ability to literally make it do anything you want is…just plain amazing. It’s it’s Bome’s code that turns it from gimmick into “OMGAMAZING”