"Flat" mixes? Confused.

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
1

“Flat” mixes? Confused.

Okay, so something I’ve been noticing is that my mixes don’t sound nearly as good as a professional mix. Seriously! I’m talking about the sound quality, not the mixing. :stuck_out_tongue:

For example, I fired up a podcast from a pro and it just sounds punchier (louder, more of a dynamic range?) – like a mastered track. This makes me sad. This is how the tracks I buy off of Beatport sound on my computer sound as well.

So here’s what’s going on:

  1. This is all in my head. :open_mouth:

  2. Equipment driven as I’m using an Audio8DJ and DJM-400 Mixer

  3. Something wrong with my settings in Traktor? I’ve made sure nothing is clipping on my mixer, in Traktor (top panel next to Bat), or in the Audio Recorder (I’m using the Gain there, but just to get it to an acceptable level).

  4. I have two mixes made with these settings on Soundcloud here and here (if anyone would be so kind to take a second and listen?). I’ve also attached a picture of how the input into Channel C looks (this is how my A8DJ is hooked up to record). Is this normal or should I have a circular output here…? :confused:

If I’m not insane – what else can I be doing here to help this?

2

Don’t worry about the timecode output display on your recording channel, this is a complete red herring :slight_smile:
I took a look at the second mix. The levels seem very even, and I sorta get what you’re hinting at…
I take it you’re mixing A/B externally on the DJM. How are your levels for these going out of Traktor (not the master output, but take a look at each channel’s meters) ?
You’re making sure the mixer isn’t clipping (does that mean “not going to the top leds” or “not even in the red” for you), but what about traktor’s output ?

3

don’t quote me here but I’ve heard that the more professional mix’s run compressors over the mix once its been recorded to get the “punch”

4

See that thread one page down : Post processing mix sets

Running a compressor over an entire set can take some work. Seeing as most of the tracks in his set are almost brickwall limited, it can be a tricky affair if you don’t want to screw the dynamics even more !

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  1. Yup, just standard AB mixing externally.
  2. Okay, for reference here’s what I’m going to talk about…the Audio Recorder output (whatever’s being recorded), the Main Output (top middle of Traktor), and the Track Outputs (individual Track A/B levels)

Oh shit – you miiiiiight have something here with the track outputs. So I often have these hidden, looking at them now, the levels going out of each track sometimes look suspiciously high and like they’d be clipping. Three things though:

  1. I drag and drop a track in and it autogains it up – should I not trust that?2. Also, there’s no red indicator when it hits the top of the level – would that still create a problem if the Main Output isn’t clipping (I’d guess yes)?.
  2. And if so, should my fix just be turning off autogain and gaining manually? What’s the best way to do that – use the Gain knob in Traktor, use the Trim on my Mixer, or just turn up my EQs accordinly?

Never knew I was such a newb with this stuff :open_mouth:

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If your Master Out is not clipping then you are not clipping.
if your using External mode with timecode the channel faders are disabled so thats not an issue.

However the EQ is not disabled so make sure its all at zero if your using the external mixers EQ to colour the sound.

Autogain is fine, leave it on.

You mix sounds a little flat and quiet. What is your average EQ setting on the mixer. Just sounds like its lacking EQ across the range and maybe a little more top end to crisp it up.

Good track selection. Im s HUGE Phoenix fan. Seeing them at Glastonbury in a few days. Lisztomania is one of my fave tracks of last year.
In fact there isnt a single track in your first mix i dont like. (havent checked the 2nd mix).

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Everyone so far, thanks for your comments – really appreciate the help (as always!).

@Karlos

Cool, I’ll take your word for that with the autogains. The first mix you listened to was even amplified post mix overall (slightly though) with Audacity. Before it was just as flat and even more quiet!

My avg EQ setting on the mixer is nearly always right at 12’o clock, +0dB for all bands. Now I’m even more confused as to what the problem would be. :confused:

Thanks for the compliments as well! I wasn’t trying to get more eyes on those mixes, but I appreciate the kudos nonetheless. :wink: I’m grateful for your help!

8

Maybe try upping the Hi to just after 1 oclock to add some top and up the middle to fill the sound out.

I dont know how your mixer sounds but i guess you just need to play with the EQ and get it sound a bit more alive.

To be honest you recording the tracks again so they wont sound as crisp as they originally did without some creative EQing.

What are your amplifier settings. If the amp has EQ that will make the sound that you hear different to the sound that is being recorded.
The only part of the path that should be adding EQ is the mixer.

Just keep at it mate.

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If I may suggest something. See if you can find a stereo 1k sine wave tone and pink noise. If you can’t find them, maybe the nice guys at DJTT will let me send them my test disc of tone files to post for people to use. First turn down or unplug your speakers as listening to 1k or pink noise for extended periods can be annoying. While looping the 1k tone, play the tone through your record chain, making sure to set each area of gain staging so that the 1k is as close to 0db or your nominal level as possible. Record the 1k, play back the newly recorded 1k through your audio chain. All the levels the should be the same as when you originally recorded them. If they’re not then there’s a gain staging issue somewhere. The pink noise can be used the same way but it’s used for testing equal power across the audio spectrum and really needs to be used in conjunction with a real time analyser to get a good idea of what’s going on. Hope this made sense and helps.

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+1 for ‘Lisztomania’ - will have to give the mixes a listen!

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@Karlos

Okay, cool. I’ll test that stuff out. Thanks again!

@SirReal

Hmmmmm, I guess I’ll just see if I can find something like that thru google?

12

Looks like you have keylock on. Which algorithm are you using? The HiQ one is elastique pro (I think), which sounds rather decent. I think the other one is regular elastique which does sound rather dull/rolled off. Might be the reason.

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@ Ola

Thanks – I have HiQ set.

Question, I have the following Latency Settings:

USB Buffer: 2ms
Audio Buffer: 6ms
Sample Rate: 44100 Hz

All fine?

14

Are you using anything lower than 320? lower quality mp3s have a noticeable high end roll off

15

No sir, all tracks 320.

16

The track selection in that first mix is excellent!!

How do you change this? I feel like my mixes are a little lacking in the sound department as well.

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Well first of all make sure the limiter never get engaded, thats rule number one - its there to catch accidental clips and absolutely nothingnelse. It sounds like u got thay right though.

Next, your mix is only going to sound as good as the quality of the tracjs you are playing, so if the tracks are not punchy, nor will your set. Not so much talking about kbps quality here as your using 320’s but more so the quality of the initia, production of the the tracks.

Id personally advise against using a compressor, thats only going to reduce dynamics - however you could use an analogue modeled compressor like say vi tage warmer to add some analogue distorion - hugely a personal thing though. I used to do that a bit in moderation but now i just like to keep things as clean as possible and let the tracks speak for theirselves. Compression, ecem analogue modeled will add distortion.

Karlos mentioned a good point with the eqing, that can help glue a mix together without affecting dynamics - but again i am Pretty minimal on the eq’s and give the mastering engineers some credit, allowing them to do what they do best. Ill almost always try to leave all 3 eq’s at the 0 db position when a tracks playing by itself. Again this is a personal preference thing, no ones ever complained about the eqing in my mixes, personally i let filters do most of my mixing work, they are truely my bread and butter for mixes, They dont cuase phasing problems like eq’s can.

Take a listen to my mix and decide for yourself, in that mix i used no compression, no limiting, very little eqing, 0db eq gain/cut on the tracks i was playing, except for transitions. In fact its a pretty basic mix done as cleanly as i could, the only post processing was some gain on the overall mix to bring the highest peak up more towards the digital brickwall, without hitting it. The mastering and productions of the tracks are all speaking for theirselves without any techical wizzardry on my part going on - just because you can do wizzardry doesnt necissarily mean u should do wizzardry.

That said… On a couple of those mixes i am oretty sure i did use some smartmixing where i felt it needed it - but only on one or two of the transitions. When im doing dnb double drops ill use smartmixing quite a bit more - but that mix really wasnt there to show off some mad skills, just to play some good tunes with some clean mixing.

Ill be putting up another mix that showcases some more technical stuff in the not to distant future - but that mix is a great example of how sometimes the simplest approach can provide the best results.

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@ Bentosan – thanks for reply. To my knowledge, you and I are mixing exactly the same with the exception of you using some smartmixing. I listened to your mix and it does sound like what I’m going for as far as “punchy”. As well as the quality of the tracks, every one in that set is produced well (save for the “I’m Corrupt” track, which is an edit of an oldie).

That’s why I’m still scratching my head!

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How hard are you pushing your keylocking out of interest ? Pushing your keylock too hard is pretty much a sure fire way of having pretty dull sounding mixes. I use keylock, but i don’t push it very hard, also if you can try not to use keylock in instances you can get away with it - like for instance if your mixing out of a beat and into some synths, don’t keylock the beat, it wont add any harmonic mixing to the mix at all and just make the beat sound not that fab. Only use it when you need it !

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Gonna give the first mix a listen tomorrow.