I want my sound to be FAT not FLAT…
Hey Guys
I have a problem with my sound when I play on a big system … what happens is it sounds really flat compared to the C DJs or the decks… I have just been plugging my sound card into the the club mixer and mixing internally … all my tracks I play are at 320 kbps…
Any ideas???
SPECS—
Traktor Pro 1.11001
Vista Ultimate SP2
Sound card Novation Nio 2/4
Controller Vestax vci 100
CPU 1.8 core 2
4gig of ram
500 gig HD
Hi dude and welcome to DJTT! Ok i think what you should try is when you run through the club mixer, on the channel you are using try upping the mids and highs a fraction to compensate. It may take a bit of tweaking but you should be able to get it sounding pretty good i would say.
This is one of the areas where mixing internally in Ableton is quite advantageous because you can model your own distortion to make your output sound quite unique. The key is to not go overboard, a bit of tube or tape saturation will compress your track a little bit without sounding so much like it has been compressed. It will also add a bit of fatness to your sound in the low end which is probably what you are going for.
Another possible solution is to use an external hardware tube compressor to help fatten up your sound.
Also make sure that your not pushing your internal gain structure too loud in your mixing in Traktor because that will suck the life out of your mix, the limiter in Traktor Pro shouldn’t have to engage at all in a good mix.
Another solution is to mix externally, the mixer itself will compress your mix in its own way which on a good mixer will add some warmth to your mix - i personally don’t take this route as it starts to put limits on what i can actually do inside the software, but there are many who take this approach.
also make sure your soundcard is sending the strongest audio signal (not amplyfiing it in TPRO though).
Hey bento i was just thinking he should try mixing externally also. i cant think why such high quality tracks would sound “flat” as vomito mentioned. It could also be the mixer as well ya reckon?
I was thinking the same thing … next time what I was going to do is take the cables out of the mixer and put them straight into the sound card… and try that … but saying that the guy played after me with the cdjs at the beginning it sounded fat but half way though his set one track sounded really tinny…
I think mixing externally its going to sound much the same, especially if he is A->B mixing, he will still get the same distortion from the mixer because the audio still gets passed it though the mixer anyway.
The only time you hear a difference is during the actual mixing of 2 or more tracks together on analogue gear and even then i think the difference between a digital summed signal and a analogue summed signal isnt as huge as some people like to make it out to be - especially when the digital dj is doing his job properly
try another sound card?
+1
I’m not too sure about adding extra distortion and things to the track, they’re already mastered to sound the way the engineer wants it to sound- that should be enough. You’re venturing into some shakey territory when you start adding extra compression… If you don’t know what you’re doing it’d be best to leave that alone.. even still… :s
The problem could be as simple as your soundcard or cables… i know cables make a HUGE difference if your not using high quality ones- trust me I’ve learned my lesson lol !
I guarantee you the cdjs are not bit-transparent in terms of the signal flow from the disc itself to the cdj outputs. What that means is, even before the cdj hits the analog mixer, the signal has been altered via the cdj A/D converters and any other exciter or maximizer-type circuits in the unit. Traktor alone, routed to a sound card, is bit-transparent (these kind of enhancement operations are not occurring), and it may sound flat or lacking in certain frequencies when compared to the cdj. It’s not missing any information, it’s just a very dry signal.
Now, as a very picky listener, I quickly became obsessed with how to return the warmth I was used to, after I made the switch to digital. Bento and others have made some great suggestions in this thread. My personal preference is to emulate in-the-box, so my own solution (re: Traktor) is to run Ableton Live simultaneously and virtually route Traktor into Live where I doctor up the sound. Tape saturation, tube emulation, compressors and maximizers/exciters are all great tools that can fatten up the sound (don’t use ‘em all at once 
) . Don’t forget about good ol’ eqing as well. Prudent use of eq on the master channel is just fine in my book. One or two small things can make a huge difference in how you are perceiving the sound, you don’t need a huge chain of processing. There’s really no rulebook, but you need to use your ears and be aware of when you’ve pushed the signal too far. Do what sounds good to you - define your own sound!
+1
Damn’ this is the second time I going to mention this on a very short stay at TT forum, it’s going to sound like I’m in a rampage agains the limiter on TK Pro but errrrr… I’m positive the sinner is the limit… TURN it OFF and I’m sure your mix will sound as flat or dynamic as the quality on the mixing/ mastering of the tracks you are spinning … and believe me most tracks today are already preatty flat and full (aka LOUD as HELL @ all times, all the time lol).
Now that Limit is off make sure your master does not touch the red (or very slightly and only occasionally).
On the club’s mixer channel that you’re plug your soundcard make sure you keep the levels around 0 db (if it’s not loud enougth increase the master volume on the club’s mixer).
I know where Bento is going for and he’s right, but it takes a good system, ears and lots of knowledge not to go overboard (or should I say overdriven channel saturation, which very soon turns into harsh sounding limiting). If you’ve ever played with a Allen & Heath V6 / Urei/ formula sound you know analog summ/ saturation can be veeeeery sweet!
A better soundcard (presonus are good and not to expensive, you also have the Native stuff which is pretty resonable deal) and very good and short RCA cable can help loads.
Hope this helps,
Z
PS - CDJs can really mash up your sound if there is to much vibration on your booth. I Have setup some Dj backlines where the DJ monitors are LINE ARRAYS!!! On one ocasion we had to use gaffa tape to keep the CDJs in place lol … sound was dreadfull and even stopped playing a few times… it doesn’t help that a lot of DJs burn they’re CDs at more that 8x (most times at 52x 
) ).
(EDIT - I am having trouble reproducing this behavior reliably, so personal experiences with this topic are appreciated. Just tested extensively in Live 5 and 8, with lots of different tracks, and I can’t get the waveform to look how it did in the set that drew my attention to this topic)
Something I’ve noticed while recording live sets in another program, is that Traktor can shave peaks when the limiter is on, EVEN BEFORE you tap the red on screen! Everyone knows TPro’s channel meters are next to useless, but this is especially a bummer because it means the master level is also inaccurate. I noticed this inadvertently while recording TPro’s output into Live.
Here’s the set-up: load a track in TPro, set the eqs and gain at zero, no fx. Set the channel fader at 70%. Pick an average track, not too loud, not too quiet. Be certain this track does not have clipped waveforms already. Set the master output such that you never go red at any part of the track. At this point you should have relaxed levels with plenty of headroom. Turn on TPro’s master limiter. Now, route the audio from Traktor into a different program that can record (virtual routing, not with cables), and make sure that program is not boosting the input level in any way. Do not eq, add fx, or do anything to the incoming signal at all. Hit record. Go back to TPro, and raise the Master Level slowly until you are almost going to hit red, but DO NOT actually let it go red. Just take it as far as you can without clipping. Technically, the limiter should not have engaged yet. Go back to your recording program, hit stop, and look closely at the loud peaks in the waveform. You may notice the peaks have been shaved, even without having gone into the red. If you back off on the master, and record again, your waveform looks fine. What this means is, the TPro limiter is kicking in at some arbitrary point, but actually before it redlines visually.
But I really want to get some confirmation too. Simply turning off the limiter is a solid workaround, but what about those of us that don’t abuse it, rarely dip into the red but just want that bit of extra protection? It blows if we have no indication of where it actually kicks in.
^ have you tried just playing the master output at a lower volume then what you did in this test? Because all this means to me is that you’re proving why the channel meters are as you said useless.
It seems the natural thing to do would be to compensate by lowering the volume even less than almost redlining. I’m just wondering if maybe this would alleviate your issue?
Oh, yeah - that’s no problem, and that’s actually what I do. But what I’m saying is, there’s no defined point that we can count on beyond which we know for sure the track will get shaved. In practice this isn’t too much of a problem. But then there’s always some occasion, the master is up a bit more than usual, and there’s no way to gauge the limiter kick in point visually. Basically imagine using an analog mixer where the level meters are in fact NOT giving you accurate readings. I guess I just want simple things like that to work, and moreover, not to be biasing us into thinking we have more headroom than we actually do.
^ yeah i see what you’re saying.. it seems to be a problem with most audio software i’ve used from DAW software to audio editors. the level meters are never consistent from program to program, it seems like each one runs by it’s own set of rules and forces the user to solve the mystery… kinda bogus, but atleast there’s away to work with it.
Good morning from Japan
Thanks for all the great feedback …thanks a lot cheers..
A couple of silly questions
Do you think changing the sound card drivers to the Asio 4 all ones might help?
Do you think changing from vista to xp might help?
Has anyone else had the same problem with the Novation NIO 2/4 sound card???
I guess I take mine to a whole another level when I use my gear… Im a nut when it comes to clean rich sound. I have a very keen ear.
but like some of the others have said using processing (EQ / compression, etc) just don’t over do it. and different venues have their each own acoustical properties, even the difference between an empty dance floor then a room full of people changes the acoustical characteristics of the room, but we can get waaaaay to technical, The biggest thing is what sounds good.
Here is my usual setup if im using all my gear.
M-audio fast Track pro → to my dj mixer, an ancient Gemini PMX-2000 that I have had since I was 12,
From that its off to a DBX-215 EQ where i can make minor adjustments from room gain and bad resonances, Then its off to a DBX 166XL gate/compressor/limiter
From there the signal then goes to the Behringer DCX2496 Speaker management system, for active crossover and or phasing or delay when needed then to separate amps for subs mid bass and mids and highs
the nice things is if i use all my gear at some bars where they don’t have their own system, once i have the right sound i save it to a profile on my dcx2496, then when i come back I don’t have to fiddle with it to get the sound I want
Yeah I noticed I get a flat response too coming directly out of Traktor versus the sound you get out of CDJs. I don’t care too much but I hate anything that makes digital DJs look bad.
I’m probably going to try and find a software solution that won’t tax my CPU very much.