So I’m looking for some info on how traktor interprets “high resolution” controller messages.
First, what protocol do controllers use? ISsit all/mostly HiD, or is there more diversity than that?
Is Traktor at all capable of using these messages, or does it just convert them to midi values?
What if you put a S4 in midi mode? Does it still read the hi-resolution inputs, or does it only send midi?
What about the upcoming behringer CMD PL-1? It will include a high-resolution pitch fader and jogwheel. Will traktor be able to take advantage of these?
For a platter, this isn’t necessarily true. Actually, it isn’t even true for all fader messages. A 14bit message is TOTAL OVERKILL for a pitch fader, even if it’s 100mm long.
DJ controller platters normally use a 7bit relative CC message, and manage what we would consider “high resolution” messaging.
I’m not saying regular MIDI is bad for common usage, just not the best for pitch faders and jogs. If you sync it won’t make a difference if it’s MIDI, 14bit MIDI, HID, OCS or whatever name they put on the next fancy protocol.
I’m sorry but it seems to me like you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
Let’s make a quick calculation here. Say your pitch fader has a resolution of 7 bit. This means that it has a number of 2^7=128 different possible states. Because faders and encoders use absolute positions, this means a total of 128 different tempo states. I like to have a pitch range of +/- 20%, but let’s assume a range of +/- 10% - for the sake of feasibility.
Say our tune is of 128 BPM. 10% up gives an increment of 12,8BPM, 10% down a decrease of 12,8BPM, resulting in a total range of 25,6BPM. With a 7 bit fader, this means that the minimum increment/decrease you can achieve is 25,6/128 = 0,2BPM.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t call that an accurate means of tempo adjustment, and this is even assuming a rather smallish tempo range. And for the record, the length of your pitch fader does not change these calculations - nor application in real life - by one bit.
14 bit really has its use for certain components such as pitch faders, there’s absolutely no doubt about that.
And 7 bit is by absolutely no means “high resolution” messaging. It’s an as oldskool resolution as MIDI gets. Literally. The original MIDI protocol (from back in the early 80’s) already used 7 bits command messages.
Umm, interestingly enough, Nem0nic designed the CMD series… But while I’m inclined to believe that he knows what he’s talking about, you do seem correct, StephenV. Nem0nic… Can you clarify? Are you implying that the Pl-1’s platter and pitch fader are 7 bit? They’ve been advertised as “high definition”. Is there some other system in place here?
Yeah I know traktor will SUPPORT them, but will they be HD, or standard 128-state midi?
The faders are explicitly mentioned as 14bit, so that’s a no brainer. As for the platters, I guess we’ll have to wait and see - unless nem0nic can shed some light on this. Either way, platters don’t quite need 14bit as much as pitch faders do, so I wouldn’t really worry about it actually. Especially because Behringer is taking its time and resources to make a quality product line.
Does anyone know the resolution of the VCI400 faders as they do not work too well with traktor. This would mean that if they are 14bit then none of the other 14bit faders will play nice with traktor either.
Nope, I think you’re getting things twisted, primarily because you didn’t read what I wrote. Let’s look at things again…
A 14bit absolute CC message has 16,384 messages across the length of it’s travel. If that travel is 100mm, then there are almost 164 messages PER MILLIMETER OF TRAVEL. This is WAY MORE resolution than is practical for that application. A 10bit message would be more appropriate, but then you run into issues with how applications interpret that, since it’s not a “standard” message.
We’re talking about platters now. Unlike an absolute CC message, a 7bit RELATIVE CC message isn’t strictly limited to 128 values, because the way it works and how the message is interpreted is different. Yes, the last byte of a 7bit relative CC can only express 128 values, but DJ software doesn’t just look at the last byte of the message. It looks at HOW MANY TICKS have elapsed in a given time interval. If you have an encoder that has 4000 counts of resolution around a single rotation, a relative CC message is sent for every “tick”. So what is the last byte representing if the software is primarily looking at the message throughput to track platter movement? Generally, the answer is platter direction and (to a lesser extent) relative velocity from tick to tick. The rules for how this works depends on what KIND of message we’re talking about (whether it’s a binary offset, or a two’s comp, or whatever).
So THAT is why a 7bit relative CC is TOTALLY appropriate for platter use.
Be careful here, because it’s obvious you don’t have all the information. A 7bit ABSOLUTE message isn’t high resolution. But a 7bit RELATIVE message can easily be.
It already does.
See above.
Again, that is only 1 kind of “standard” MIDI message. This is what screwed Stephen up.
14bit pitch faders work just fine in Traktor in my experience. The fader on the PL-1 specifically works great.
No, you’re not going to get .01% pitch resolution on the PL-1. You don’t get it on a CDJ2000 either. .05% was the target pitch fader performance at +/-8%, which is what you get on most of the Pioneer CDJs.
nem0nic…very nicely put and summarized above. The difference between absolute and relative messages seems to be the source of a lot of confusion regarding 7-bit messages. At any rate, I am very much looking forward to a PL-1…or maybe 2 PL-1s
