…Traktor and VDJ (VDJ ESPECIALLY) are taking some of Ableton’s features and incorporating them into their DJ software.
If Ableton pays just a little more attention to the needs of DJ’s, we’d ALL be better off!!!
If Ableton could JUST implement proper vinyl control of tracks/channels (with Ableton’s internal Master Tempo matched to the to tempo of the audio being played on each channel - so, effectively, a master tempo for each track/channel) Ableton would absolutely blow these other DJ software out of the water.
The routing, handling of FX, etc… in Live is second to none. Add DVS, and Ableton is the BEAST for DJ’s that it should be!
Instead of users being happy that VDJ/Traktor are incorporating little bits of Live functionality, we’re actually disappointed that Ableton doesn’t add just a TINY bit of DJ functionality to Live.
A 3/4 Band EQ as standard (adjustable curves in prefs) - Seriously this is a basic function on any regular DJ mixer since … forever.
If they are going to continue marketing to a DJ/remix community it just makes plain sense that you don’t need to take up space in your rack adding simple stuff stupid like an EQ, and then needing to edit it or try to download one one that just “works” as the defaults do not zero at 12’ O clock like a real EQ.
Independent scrolling waveforms displaying per channel - in the clip play/stop area would be fine so long as its re-sizeable, but I want to see a realtime display of multiple waveforms so I can visualize everything better.
[QUOTE]miss pinky max for live = timecode control
[/QUOTE]
I think he means native control in fairness. Needing to pay for M4L and then needing to pay for ms Pinky and then a compatible sound card is a little rich.
Torq or Mixvibes Routed into Ableton channels is cheaper and tidier if DVS is really needed and soundcard is included for less than max+pinky
I’m starting to get pissed waiting for the next incarnation to “maybe” add some features and will probably to Traktor + f1 if things dont change soon.
They already have this in live. Its under Audio Effects and its called “EQ Three”. Its not as good as the virtual EQ in Traktor, or VDJ but it is something.
Appart from that, could someone clarify why everyone wants Ableton to be a DJ program? I feel that its role is as a production suite and a performance program for those productions. There’s many DJs who use it (and I’ve tried it myself), but in the end I think that Ableton is perfect as it is, for what it was designed to do. What we’re asking Ableton to do is take a DAW and make it a DJ program. Thats like asking Apple to make iTunes better for DJs and include waveform displays and a crossfader.
Currently, I think that the perfect setup for using Ableton’s effects and clip launching features is routing Traktor (or VDJ) audio into Ableton or routing Ableton into Traktor (or VDJ). Rather than make Live into a DJ player, I think its better to use Live how it was designed and use that in conjunction with a DJ software.
Down the line, I’d like to see a more easily integrated option or maybe a new program entirely with a workflow built for DJs. A program released by Ableton just for DJs would be the best possible option, but I don’t know if they’re interested in doing that.
AbletonLiveDJ collected some time ago a list of features that DJs would require, such as having two waveforms showing at the same time, decent to good file browser showing iTunes/id3 tags and so on. AFAIR the response from Ableton was that they rather focus on features for production work.
I switched over to Traktor, more fun. If I want Ableton Live I could incorporate both. Live is still fun for production work but there’s a point in time when warping tracks on your spare time becomes labor of non-love.
[QUOTE]They already have this in live. Its under Audio Effects and its called “EQ Three”. Its not as good as the virtual EQ in Traktor, or VDJ but it is something.
[/QUOTE]
EQ 3 Is unless for DJ’ing IMHO - 0db is @ 2 o’ clock which is just weird (for any eq)
Tarekiths ones are the closest I’ve found and work great, but a regular 3 or 4 band + hp/lp filter per channel as standard would be a nice touch.
[QUOTE]Currently, I think that the perfect setup for using Ableton’s effects and clip launching features is routing Traktor (or VDJ) audio into Ableton or routing Ableton into Traktor (or VDJ). Rather than make Live into a DJ player, I think its better to use Live how it was designed and use that in conjunction with a DJ software.
[/QUOTE]
As it stands without the most basic of full midi mapping and lack of a “few” basic DJ/live features it makes just using Live, well… Live, a chore rather than a pleasure.
To manage even basic features these days I feel everything is workaround rather than ableton incorparating a real solution, M4L being an example, Browsing files is a pain in the Arse when all your samples are in Itunes so needing to categorize stuff weirdly or export to additional folders, feckin keystrokes instead of midi learn on frequently accessed areas, no midi learn OR keystrokes on other areas etc etc …
Of course another issue is the blasted midi clock slave which has never worked correctly in Live, so getting it to follow a track with BPM jumps is going to lead to issues (and why I stopped routing Traktor).
If they are not targeting DJ’s get rid of the bloody x-fader - its an Ideal base platform for remix-dj’ing a few very minor tweaks, and so far it was the only option, with the F1 I would think of moving back to Traktor, but again, doesn’t have much stuff I need there either.
waveform display in the session view would be nice.
however. ableton is a DAW not a A/B dj program.
the session view and all of that is as to provide a different aproach and workflow into the typical arrangement production line.
lots of fun to use with live bands, as instrument and firing samples and stuff
if you don’t produce in ableton, you probably shouldn’t be trying to “dj” with it. it’s really not the right software to be using anyway since it’s not dj software. there are, on the other hand, producers who perform (not dj) their sets using ableton. but ableton’s target market has zero interest in DVS.
Yes, I know there are various ways to achieve it … ±6db is certainly not enough of a drop or boost for DJ mixing (or live mixing) the best way IMHO is to set up macros to the eq 8, or hp/lp or combination to achive a -30 + 10db “DJ Style” EQ.
My point is that 0db @ center has been standard on mixing desks and interfaces since the dark ages - It would be much more sensible to have one on every channel as standard rather than needing to configure a basic feature like this.
±15db is normal on pretty much every mixing console, yamaha, mackie, A&H at least give us that to work with
I’m a huge fan of Ableton but to DJ with it would need a totally new view in addition to the standard two it already has.
It’s a mess working with tracks on the fly (actually it’s impossible) so there is nothing they could really add to make it work other than inventing a totally new view.
The biggest reason you can’t DJ with Ableton is you can’t set up cue points or anything on the fly, you can’t even beatmatch on the fly which is about as basic as it gets for DJ software. Everything needs to be prepped to such a degree, you might as well just pre-record the entire set.
I love Ableton for producing, but for DJ’ing it takes so much preparation, you are not really DJ’ing.
Also, as for the EQ,s, all the Ableton built in stuff is sort of garbage. It’s like they purposely made the default settings for everything unusable so it’s like you have to learn a new piece of software every time you load an effect. I pretty much use all VSTs and rarely touch the Ableton stuff.
I disagree, its actually easy to do … all it takes is copying and pasting a track 3 times with a different 1:1:1, BUT unfortunately those actions are not available VIA midi.
99% of the time its auto warp works just fine.
If your tracks are all pre-analyzed all you need to do is drag them from iTunes .. just drag and drop them from itunes the first time you buy them into Ableton and walk away.
I work in Live and DJ on the fly - Yes a different browser would make a HUGE difference as would copy/paste multiple instances, among a slew of other improvements.
I gotta disagree with that a little bit. I’m not arguing with you or anything as this is just a friendly discussion.
You said you can copy three instances of a song, but that clutters everything up. Every one of my songs in Traktor has a few cue points. So in Ableton, every single song I would have to load several copies of it?
Next is the auto warping, it NEVER works. If all your songs are native 128 and the master tempo is 128, it can work but ONLY if you set the 1.1 which means you have to use a mouse. Any song BPM other than your master tempo will never work. You can play it, but it won’t stay on beat or in time with the metronome. You have to warp it in advance. Maybe I just choose weird songs but auto warping in Ableton has never worked for me, I can’t remember the last time it did. It’s close but you can’t overlay track parts without flam or it going out of sync. Once it’s out of sync there is nothing you can do.
But yes, you can do the things you said, but it’s so pointless when you can do it with a standard DJ style setup about a million times easier.
