More advice: Quit traktor for CDJ's

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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More advice: Quit traktor for CDJ’s

I started a thread a couple of days asking about which mixer to get for use with traktor (or whether to get an S4) as I wanted a more enjoyable hands-on feel to mixing. After doing more research the last few days I’m now starting to think that a pair of cdj’s and a mixer is the way to go (and not even use traktor). The quality and feel of cdj’s (pioneer) is way above what a controller can ever give me. I’m not really into cue point juggling, extensive use of fx or anything like that - basically I enjoy playing a set and putting together mixes for my friends. Good tunes played in the right order. I’m competent with ableton live if I need to do any edits or remixes and don’t need to do it on the fly. Basically i’m a bedroom DJ only. I have no ambitions to be Tiesto or Avicii or whoever.

Has anyone here gone from using traktor back to cdj’s? Thoughts?

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I can’t really speak for the long term, but I went from a S2 MK2 to the XDJ-R1, which - at least from my point of view - is basically the best budget cdj-all-in-one-unit. I’m a bit subjective, because it is still new and exiting, but I am having way more fun with it than the S2. I can focus on the music much more than with a laptop in use, all information is either on the headphones/monitor or on the unit. Of course it is a different workflow, but it works for me.

The only thing I fear is that people report that the unit crashes a lot. I did experience more crashes on the S2 than on the XDJ-R1 so far. I hope that won’t change.

By the way: I got my XDJ-R1 used with warranty for 450€ (half the original price), what makes it a no-brainer for me. If I ever wish to go back to Traktor I’d just use the mapping (either custom or the official pioneer one).

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A 2 channel controller and traktor is going to cost significantly less than a pair of cdjs and a mixer, and you’re going to go this route because of “quality” and “feel?” It doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when you consider that some of pioneers controllers have the same “quality” and “feel” as their cdjs.

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I went from Traktor-> Cd players → TSP2 with CDJs → Traktor

your statement of “feeling in touch” with the music is true. I loved having Cd players, i just hated transporting them around to local bars and parties. I for one also don’t believe in buying Pioneer CDJ’s unless i am making a substantial amount of from Dj’ing. (feel free to PM me for an honest opinion on Pio Cdj’s). It is awesome being able to know your music well, and a good mix feels rewarding.
However… do your research before buying your mixer/CD players. You say you don’t aspire to be Tiesto or whomever, so i advise you to save some money and get nice none-Pio CDj’s (Denon sc2900 is full feature for a cdj-850 price). Also take into consideration whether or not you’d like to use them with Traktor (midi/HID/TC)

If you are a bedroom DJ and don’t have to worry about transporting them around all the time, then go for it. Don’t be discouraged if you don’t get the hang of CDj’s right away, it is a rough transition from having visual feedback of a song, to having nothing but your ears. I spent 1.5 years with a controller, and 1.5 years with CDj’s. before settling on my 2x X1 and denon mixer setup. (mobility is key) if you do decide to switch, you will think of music in different ways (phrasing, keys, styles, etc…)

TL;Dr: You will have a great time with CD players with your attitude. Do not buy Pio unless you are making money/can afford them comfortably. Don’t be discouraged if you can’t get the hang of it right away (took me a few practice mixes to learn)

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The poster above speaks a lot of sense- if you are only planning on using them for mixing at home, with friends, and for recording mixes etc I would definately research all the options before spending a ton of money on Pioneer CDJs just because they are Pioneer.

They do make great CDJs no question, but so do other companies. For what it’s worth I sold my Pio CDJ900s (in my username pic) to swap to the Denon SC2900s when they came out because they are in my opinion a better unit in every way except for not having HID for software control (their midi control with Traktor is however excellent).

It will largely depend on your budget but in my opinion if you want USB capable players I would consider the following:

Lower Budget: Pioneer CDJ400s, Reloop RMP3alphas - none of these have waveforms at this level, but to be honest if you are used to Traktor then only the waveforms on the 3 players in the last catagory are going to cut it.

Medium Budget: Denon Sc2900 / Sc3900 - IMO these are better (features AND build quality) than the CDJ900 and miles ahead of the CDJ850, and cheaper than either.

Money no object: Pioneer CDJ900nexus, CDJ2000, CDJ2000nexus - the 3 Pio players with the full LED screen, definately the ultimate solution to go truly laptop-less with software-style browsing/visuals.

If you are happy to burn & use CDs then I would probably disregard all of the above and pick up a pair of CDJ1000mk3s (no usb port) as I still hold that these are the best built DJ cd players made, and the only Pio players that came close to justifying their price.

Using a laptop-less setup is a lot of fun, there are far fewer visual cues available to you so you do feel somewhat more involved.

I would just keep in mind that you are going to have to keep your music well organised. In this regard I would definately consider one of the players that has the ‘network link’ feature (CDJ900 & above/sc2900/sc3900) as this will at least give you the option of connecting a network cable to your laptop and use it as a music database/browsing screen (running either Pio’s Rekordbox or Denon’s Engine software) should you wish.

This is different to using traditional DJ software as the hardware (the CD players) are actually playing the music still (not the computer), the computer is simply acting as a storage & browsing facility- this means you can use pretty much anything for this as system specs are not much of an issue (I often use a crappy 11" netbook for this) and certainly in the Denon’s case you can use an Ipad instead if you prefer.

For me the bottom line is that if you make the switch to CD/media players and mixer you’ll be set for the future, then if you decide to incorporate software again further down the line it is easier (and cheaper) to do so whilst still maintaining the option of stand-alone functionality. It is a big investment but I simply couldn’t go without the sheer versatility of CD/usb decks now.

Just do plenty of research (read reviews, watch videos, basically google the hell out of every option out there!) before pulling the trigger, I can’t stress this enough. This way you get the equipment that is right for you- at the end of the day if you put a great mix together nobody listening to it is going to care what make of equipment you recorded it on (in my experience only other DJs and equipment manufacturers care what you are using, and they are but a tiny percentage of the people listening to your music).

I’ve owned or used a fair chunk of the above players so I’d happily give you some more detailed thoughts on them where I can :slight_smile:

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Why would people recommend Pioneers CDJ400 or 350 as a budget equipment over the XDJ-R1? The only real advantages are being able to stack four of them and the better loop control for non-analyzed tracks. Therefor you already pay twice what I payed for my XDJ-R1 (for 2CDJs + an equivalent mixer). What’s the point? Did I buy the wrong unit? What do I not see?

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The pitch faders on the XDJ R1 look tiny and I’ve heard that the jogwheels aren’t very good either. Although to be fair, the jogwheels on the CDJ 400 and 350 don’t seem particularly good either.

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Yes true, I had intended to mention the R1 in my post and got sidetracked.

The only advantages I can see with the 400s is having a modular system rather than an all-in one unit, or if the OP was expressly looking at a certain mixer.

Personally I do like the look of the R1 (and I’m all for the concept), if they did one in the mold of the DDJ-SX I’d be sorely tempted.

I got the impression though that the OP was referring more to the larger players (or at least thats how it seemed to me- I’m not convinced switching to a CDJ400-sized setup would offer much more in feel over a decent controller).

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while cdj400’s are small format cd players, they do offer HID and USB. They were simple mentioned as budget players.

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cdj 850’s have become the perfect middle ground, usb, rekordbox, and midi integration

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I mean for that price you can buy a Denon sx2900, with all that + unit link, hot cues, and better jog wheel tension, as well as other features.

850’s are way too expensive for their features.

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Purely out of curiosity, is Rekorbox actually of much benefit with the 850s? I know with my 900s I could connect to Rekordbox on a laptop via the network link and play tracks directly, likewise I could analyse all of my music and have quantized loops etc. But the 850s have no network link, no quantized looping, no hot-cues etc.

Aside from organising playlists (which you could do anyway as Rekordbox is free) can you use Rekordbox for anything other than setting (ordinary) cue points & reading bpm values for the 850? I only ask as I see the ‘850 is Rekorbox compatable’ comment loads but the 850 & 350 simply don’t support most of Rekordbox’s features.

Perhaps it’s different in the US but certainly over here the cost of an CDJ850 is insane (to be fair all Pio gear is vs the US) for what is essentially a CDJ800mk2 with a usb port. I would have to be heavily invested in the Pioneer brand to get my head around paying that much for a pair of players that are that basic (and I am someone who forked out for a pair of 900s brand new!).

Either way the OP suggested they would only be for home use and putting mixes together for friends etc, so I would argue the Rekordbox point is somewhat moot.

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I know ‘features’ arn’t everything, but even ignoring all the extra stuff the 2900 is more than comparable even in it’s basic functions- and the Jog wheel is leagues better than the ones on my old 900s.

There is a good review (with 850 comparison) over on DJ Forums: Discord

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Thanks for the replies guys, some great into in here. I’d never considered denon CD players before, I guess I just thought pioneer were way ahead of everyone…

I should have added, I had a technics and Djm set up back in the day so beat matching isn’t a problem, though I have to say help there is always nice ( gives you more time for tune selection, playing with loops etc). But, the main thing I miss is just playing with those technics. Controllers and a laptop just isn’t the same.

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Don’t back up Traktor!

I tried :wink:

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if you like Technics and you also like CDJ’s then check out the Denon SC3900

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The more I think about it the more I realize I want something like traktor but without the laptop - a set up that plays mp3s, allows me to loop, quantize, slip mode etc. but doesn’t need a laptop. Basically it’s a cdj set up that has rekordbox functionality. Irrational fear - thanks for your post, it was very useful.

Tilldrop, could you comment more on the xdj-R1 and how it feels compared to the s2 and the high end pioneer Cdjs?

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There’s one very strong argument in favor of the Pioneer players: they are what you find in almost any club/bar that has an installed sound system, so being familiar with them and having your music collection organized in Rekordbox is a big plus.

If you, however, are not planning on playing in bars/clubs, you definitely should look at other options as well.

Regarding Pioneers’ product line you need to understand the following “hierarchy” of the players:

CDJ 350: entry level/bedroom, these give you all basic controls and rekordbox integration, but the jogwheel and screen are rather small

CDJ 850: semi-pro; this model is meant for people who want a bigger jogwheel, basic looping options and a slightly better screen without spending as much as on one of the top-of-the-line models; also meant as an “at-home-version” of the bigger CDJs for people who play out on CDJs regularly and want to have some at home without having the need for all the advanced features.

CDJ 900/2000 (NXS): pro equipment meant for installation in clubs/bars; if you neither regularly take your equipment to parties or really need all the additional features, there’s really no reason to get any of these for home use, imho…

CDJ 400: kind of the “black swan” in the pioneer product line… a unit with many features (some of which can’t even be found in more expensive models today, e.g. HID control) for a quite reasonable price, which is probably why they were discontinued quite quickly… :wink:

So, if all you want is basic mixing capability, and want to keep the option to play in clubs/bars without having to transfer your whole library to a new system, go for the CDJ 350, or maybe 850 if you want the bigger version and don’t mind spending more money.

If playing on CDs is ok for you, the CDJ 400 and 1000 mk3 are also good options for you, as well as models from other manufacturers.

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The XDJ-R1 compared to the S2 - for me - is purely an upgrade. I love how it works with rekordbox USB, while still having the option to go back to Traktor with MIDI (no HID though!). But since I don’t scratch a lot that is not an issue for me. By the way: Scratching is not really what you want to do on the XDJ-R1 anyways. The jogs sadly are not really the best, but since I only use it for moving around on the tracks they are absolutely fine. Comparing the S2 to the XDJ-R1 is kinda hard, since you probably will be using the thing with Rekordbox and not Traktor. When using both with Traktor only the S2 for sure is the better unit to get. Simply because the integration is tight, Jogs are HID instead of only MIDI and you have all 4 encoders for FX (instead of 2 on the XDJ-R1). BUT you can also work just fine with Traktor on the XDJ-R1. You might want to have a look at the official Pioneer Mapping if you plan to do so. (Youtube video with more link in its description below.)

Comparing the iPad apps (S2 MK2 vs XDR-R1 / Traktor DJ vs remotebox) I’d say that Traktor DJ + S2 MK2 is a gimmicky backup solution for bedrooms and house parties, though iOS still struggles with it and the sync with Traktor is not stable yet (sadly). The Remotebox app therefore is an addition to an already solid unit. The opportunity to search your rekordbox library on the USB stick on your iPad is great since it compensates the leak of big screens. The FX are brilliant with its X/Y-Pads and the deck section is… available … as well. If needed you can remote your XDJ with low latency from out of the bathroom if you need to. If you own an iPad download remotebox and get a sneak peak - it’s free.

The big advantage of the Pioneer is, that you don’t have to stick with Traktor. You can use Rekordbox, which is the club standard. You can also use CDJs and just use the Mixer (which even has four basic sound color FX: noise, pitch, crush and filter). The XDJ supports CDs (obviously). When using Rekordbox you have 4 beat FX as well (either synced to Rekordbox, tapped or analysed BPM).

The biggest downsides of the XDJ-R1 for me are the missing waveform when using with Rekordbox and the missing possibility for manual looping (it only has auto beat loop - 1/32 to 32 beats) AND THE XDJ-R1 IS SAID TO BE NOT STABLE. This argument is a crucial for some. I can’t put any comment on that since I never had any issue, but I’m sure users on youtube and pioneerdj forums do not lie.

The biggest argument for the XDJ-R1 is simply the price. My used unit was 500€, a used S2 costs 350€, S2 Mk2 (only found new) 450€. So basically I got A LOT more for only 50€ more.

Comparing the XDJ-R1 to CDJs you might find that the CDJ350 are pretty much the same, but with no hot cues, no beat FX, therefore a full loop section the possibility to go for DVJ (if you’d wish). Price comparison: new XDJ-R1 900€, used 500€; 2xCDJ 350 new 1050€, used 650€. Remember you need to add a mixer

I don’t know the exact details for the more expensive Pio CDJs, since the next viable step for me was the 850 - cause I wanted Rekordbox -, but this unit already is 800€ each new and 500€ used. Possibly if I had more money to spend I’d go with used 850ers, but for me the advantages are definitely not worth the much higher price. Also there are some features of the XDJ-R1 that the CDJ 850 do not have (eg. hot cues or solid iPad integration).

Please not that I can not mention everything here and the report possibly is a bit one-sided towards the XDJ-R1 - simply because I decided to go for it :wink: Just hope this helps.

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Great replies guys - thanks very much for all the info. I like the look of the r1 but I am concerned about the problems users report and also the lack of direct recording is bit inconvenient. The xdj aero looks interesting too but I just keep thinking ‘toy’ when I see it…

So it’s either the r1 or probably a cdj900 + mixer combo, which is quite a bit more expensive than the r1… These decisions are never easy :smiley:

Thanks for all the help and suggestions