S4 vs VCI-400 Special Edition question (i.e. continuing to flog a dead horse)

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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S4 vs VCI-400 Special Edition question (i.e. continuing to flog a dead horse)

Okay, I posted a while ago about the Midi Fighter Spectra and 3D and I’ve been swayed towards the 3D, this was when I had looked at the S4 and gone “that would do me pretty well”.

However…

I’ve been having a look at the VCI-400 EGE and the discussions about which is better, and the VCI just lowered in price…

SO… HELP!

Basically I’m DJing at least weekly at a club, looking to potentially do more while I’m a student before I move (and no-one will take me in my new town) or have to give up the night shifts. I don’t like the idea of that but, hey, it’s a possibility. I’m really new to this and this will be my first controller (in tandem with the MidiFighter 3D)

I’m spinning whatever people want to hear at the moment, the nights and the room I do are fairly subject to punters choice throughout the night. It’s a mix of everything from rock to dubstep/dnb, everything up to but not including IDM (which I love, but other people don’t for some reason…)

I’m comfortable with Traktor Pro 2 already and I’ve got limited funds (because I’ve still got to eat, right?).

At the current pricing there is about £100 difference between an S4 and MidiFighter 3D and a VCI and 3D.

Do I need all of these extra VCI mappings and functions if I’m getting a 3D (I want a controller for production workflow as well as DJing)? What are peoples opinions on the jog wheel qualities of each (good and bad, I want to get more into tactile control)? What are the audio ins and outs of both, do they support CDJs as well? General sturdiness and build quality? 1 to 1 mapping in Traktor and any bugs on mac (I like Tractor Pro 2 and don’t think I’ll move software)? How much extra mapping would I have to do for the VCI (I’ve never mapped in my life and don’t have much time in which to map anything properly)?

So generally, for a poor guy who needs a controller to let him play music, work nicely with Traktor Pro 2 and a MidiFighter 3D, who might not be in this for the long haul and just cannot make his mind up…

Which would you say is better suited for me?

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Everyone’s going to moan at me for saying this, but as the resident Reloop fanboy it’s my duty to point out this news article from 2 days ago: http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2013/03/reloop-jockey-3-remix-best-traktor-controller-so-far-in-2013/

Just saying :wink:

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I’d ideally like 4 ‘full’ channels so I have something to potentially grow into or have something to fall back on. But it looks like a sick controller! Definitely a good shout :slight_smile:

4

Cheers :slight_smile: Yeah, I kinda wish they did a 4 channel version of the Jockey… would be a true S4 killer then. I ended up settling on the Terminal Mix 4, which would probably do you nicely, but the fact it’s got 3 FX knobs and 1 rotary encoder (Serato-style) instead of 4 knobs/4 encoders just bugs the hell out of me.

With that said, it’s REALLY sturdy. My mate tagged along to my Thursday night gig to warm up for me, and brought his S4, and I was shocked at just how light it is. I suppose if you’re regularly moving it about that’s probably a good thing, but the plastic body felt kinda flimsy in comparison to the TM4 I was using.

From what I’ve heard (and seen on the VCI-380), the Vestax gear seems to use the same metal-bodied approach that Reloop does; so for a bit of extra weight, you much better build quality and sturdiness. With that said, I’m not sure the VCI-400 is worth the extra £250 compared to the TM4… not to mention the VCI-400 has that same issue with the bloody 4th FX control being a rotary encoder :-\

Ah screw it, just get the Terminal Mix 4 :stuck_out_tongue:

Might wanna check out my review first though, just in case you notice something that might bug you about the design.

EDIT: Just remembered, the S4 is the ONLY one of the (so far) discussed controllers which supports timecode. The VCI-400 and the TM4 both provide a “Direct Through” AUX input which you can hook a single “backup” source to, but neither work as timecode interfaces.

Don’t quote me on it, but I’m pretty sure the Jockey 3ME/3 Remix has a 4-in/4-out audio interface built into it, which could theoretically support timecode control, but isn’t Traktor Scratch certified so you’d be stuck using Torq/VDJ/Mixxx - NOT Traktor or Serato.

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The VCI 400 and S4 both have two inputs whereas the TM4 only has one, and the S4 is the only one that supports Timecode through its inputs, whereas the VCI is the only one that can be used as a two-channel standalone mixer.

All 3 controllers come with pre-made Traktor mappings so you don’t need to do any mapping yourself to get started.

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I don’t think I need stand alone mixer functionality? If I attach a CDJ to the S4 will I still be able to send the CD audio through it on something like channels C and D for instance, or it is purely only timecode they can be used for?

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An S4 and a MF3D (both with proper mappings) is all you need to get most out of Traktor.

I have both the S4 and the Vci400 SE and they’re both really different.
Sure, you can get used to every layout, but which device comes closest to your natural way of doing things?
Words can not express the feeling you get while operating a device, so try them both.
Looks might be deceiving but it’s mixing and fun what it’s all about.

The S4 is much easier to master, its work-flow is much more straightforward than the VCI400SE.
Though the VCI has many options with all the extra buttons and switches, this doesn’t mean the layout is great (to me).
Personally I don’t find the VCI switches for the jog/crossfader effects very useful, and I don’t like the 1 shift button approach.
I rather pay more for something that feels better than pay less and be frustrated.

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You can use the S4 input C to send CD audio through Traktor, and only through Traktor. Input D can be set to Direct Thru which sends the audio straight to the Master Output.

The VCI 400 and the Reloop TM4 are much better built than the plastic S4, which is only worth it if you need built-in timecode and aren’t willing to settle for an external timecode sound card.

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I need something simple at the moment, so it looks like I’m leaning towards the S4? I feel quite intimidated watching the VCI 400 demo trailers and stuff, but then again I would feel that if I watched Ean have a proper crack at the S4…

I think the thing I’m worried about is the jog wheels moving when the club is loud, and the general build quality of the S4. What is the customer service like here at DJTT and at NI?

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The S4 build quality isn’t great:

NI seem happy enough sending you more and more replacement units until your warranty is out.

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The jogwheels on the S4 feel pretty nasty to me as well; not their responsiveness or anything, just the physical feel. They’re tall, small, and very plasticky. Oh, and they’re in the wrong place.

The TM4’s ones are flat, huge, and metal.

The VCI-400 is somewhere in the middle of the two.

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That’s really worrying! :S

I’m not too worried about the positioning as I have no previous controller or experience to compare it against. I’ll just end up learning it like that. I’m going to try and get a go on an S4 in the next week or so to see whether the plastic bothered me (probably not, I’m not massively fussy so long as it works!)

Gah, this has made all my choices harder!

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There’s always the regular VCI 400 that costs much less than the SE.

Maybe have a look at the Denon MC6000 and Numark 4TRAK too? Both also have much better build quality than the S4.

14

That’s a massive shame, the S4 offers everything I want and it’s simple to operate, but I can’t get away from terrible customer service and reviews!

15

The only thing missing from the other controllers is built-in certified timecode, was there something else about the S4 you liked?

16

The layout just seems right to me. The browse, loop recorder and myriad of cue buttons are what I really like, and are in the right places for my liking. I might just bite the bullet and get one, I can always sell it on if it’s horrible, and go for the VCI (I really want to get my hands on the VCI and other controllers people are recommending, but I can only get to the Traktor Kontrols :disappointed: )

Any more suggestions or places I should look? I just want something super simple that works tightly with Traktor, but will let me grow and experiment (I want it all!!! And I want it now…)

Sorry for being awkward and useless guys, I really appreciate all the help you’re giving me!!

17

I would honestly (all my Reloop bias aside) take a detailed look at the TM4… it’s basically an S4 with a more sensible layout, better build quality, and about half the price. Not sure whereabouts you live, but there’s probably a Reloop dealer within driving/train distance to where you are, in which case I’d pop in and compare it - in the flesh - to the S4 and the VCI-400.

Seeing them in real life is the only way you can be 100% sure you’re buying the right thing tbh.

18

Have you had a look at the Numark 4Trak? It has quite a nice layout too.

You’ll lose maybe 30-40% of the S4’s retail value as soon as you buy it..

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Hang on… the customer service and build issue with the S4 are no where near that bad. I’ve got an S2 as well as my mixer and decks and it’s a perfectly solid thing. Just don’t thrash it (why would you??). There will be loads of happy S4 customers trust me.

If the S4 is perfect for you, get it. It is unlikely you will be one of the unlucky ones to get a defective unit.

Really not sure why you’re being persuaded otherwise…

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Someone gets 13 defective S4s and you think it’s based on luck?