Serato vs Traktor. More like Rane vs NI?

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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Serato vs Traktor. More like Rane vs NI?

Im no Serato expert (Im not even 100% sure Rane owns Serato) but I have understood them as “that other dj software”. Anyways it goes like this;

I have always wondered why Serato/Rane wont just compete more aggressively with NI adding a more direct controller alternatives to what NI makes with Traktor and controllers like the S4,S2,F1,X1 even adding the very well perceived compatibility with other products like Machine. I think they have very good products with Itch and adding features to make it a real contender to Traktor wouldn’t be that hard.

Yes they have a strong DVS following but controllerism is booming and I think they do have the expertise, money and fame to really go at it. Having the Twitch, Xone DX and the NS6/7 is nice but not enough to really make a dent on NI armor, kinda like they are followers rather than trend setters or ‘why they wont simply produce a controller under their brand rather than having another company make it’, nothing wrong with that, but really work internally and make something ambitious. The Bridge has a lot of potential but looks like their internal handshaking process and creative direction wont just make them stand out.

If Rane could make a controller with the build quality of their mixers, compatible with serato/itch + more features and make it cost less than $1000 I think NI would get worried about their dormant adversary. Maybe this whole thing is perception but that same perception has quite a lot of folks like me creaming their pants at any NI teaser which translate to quite several thousands of dollars.

I love Traktor but I would try Serato/Itch in a heartbeat when I see something that makes me go “ohh” and “ahh”. The Twitch is as close as I have gotten to it but besides that… crickets.

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Rand does not own Serato. Their business model is VERY different that NI’s and they stick to what they do. Their controller line up competes with and targets a different user group. Remember you can’t use Itch with a cheap controller like you can with Traktor either, the license for the software is purchased with the hardware and it’s a strong line up of controllers that have the best platter control of any controllers currently on the market. Also, Video is about to hit Itch in the next month or two, something NI does not offer.

If you go to the Serato forum there are very few DJ’s there that care about “controllerism”. It’s a different market, and a different business model.

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Also worth remembering that Traktor is just one part (smallish) of the NI stable.
They must make a gazillion more euros that Serato could imagine to make.

NI have the money to do all this stuff. Maybe Serato dont.

I dont suppose that stops Serato letting other companies use their software for use with controllers etc which brings you back to the question, do Serato want to do what NI do?
Maybe they are happy doing what they do. They do it well. Why change.

I think the consumer gets too wrapped up in what he wants from a company and forgets that the company may have its own ethos and road map which might not be the same.

Just my guess.

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In the U.S. Serato is more popular and is considered THE software.

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Serato is a software company. They don’t make any controllers.

Rane is an audio hardware company. Rane makes interfaces for Serato and gives them a cut of each interface sold to pay for the software, which Serato programs to use the Rane interfaces as a hardware dongle.

Rane also doesn’t make controllers. Numark, Vestax, Pioneer, and a couple others make controllers, and it’s up to them whether or not they make one that appeals to controllerists.

But here’s the thing. You say controllerism is booming. I say it’s an internest movement that has no real motion behind it. I’ve never seen a controllerist in a club. I’ve seen people using controllers, but I’ve owned as many X1s as I’ve ever seen. And the only other controller I’ve ever seen in a club was Sasha’s Maven. Oh, and one guy who uses a UC33e for Ableton. And an APC40 for Ableton.

Seriously…controllerism is a tiny market that–for now–is stuck in bedrooms and youtube. A few of the hip hop guys are doing DMC-like routines with it, but they’re still a very small minority.

And SSL has a couple big features that make things easier for working DJs, not the least of which is full iTunes integration. In my experience, it also runs lower latency because the software is just doing less.

I’m not really ragging on NI. I used their stuff for a while and honestly enjoyed it. But going back to SSL has felt like coming home again. But then again, I’m probably exactly their target market. I’ve bought SSL 3 times now because I keep trying other things and I keep going back.

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Serato (Scratch) was always aimed for the Hip Hop DJ. That is the market Serato focuses on. The company tries to keep things more traditional by using a Turntable or CD player as a Midi controller.

Native Instruments offers a wide variety of options on Traktor, which cannot be implemented on a Turntable/CD Player. So it is more logical for Native Instruments to design a controller that will enable the user to take full advantage of the software.

Both offer strong and weak points, which will make the DJ, choose one over the other based on his or her requirements.

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ok let me explain the serato vs NI business models.

NI targets end users (dj’s) directly. thats their customer base.

Serato on the other hand, their target is corporations. Their customers are Rane, Pioneer, Novation, Allen and Heath, Vestax, Numark, and Denon. For every itch or serato controller they ship, they have to pay Serato for 1 license. This is why the software is freely downloadable from the Serato website without you having to pay for it. The hardware basically acts as a dongle for the software. Serato handles the support and updates. They’ve basically solved the piracy problem with their business model. for every controller out there that supports their software, serato got paid.

NI on the other hand, makes money from software sold to end users (and a small percentage licensed for controllers (for example, the ddj-t1).

both have their pluses and minuses. but yeah, i think serato is a much smaller company. although, they might be just as lucrative as NI because of how their business model is.

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Oh no not this again. Yes its being used by more established DJs but Trakor is outselling SSL by fist fulls the world over including the US. Do i have the stats to back that up, not really or rather not that im gonna put on here. Take it or leave it.:slight_smile:

I really dont think anyone has got a clue just how well Traktor is actually selling .
Seriously this US domination by SSL story ran dry a couple of years ago.

As i said, Traktor is the smallest part of the NI stable. Worth considering as Traktor is selling UNREAL numbers, it still stands in the shadows of other NI software.
This is why NI have the money to do what Serato dont (perhaps)

Not correct really.
Traktor is Traktor. You just need to buy the licence so that it can be used with TT/CD or controller.
Every person that owns Traktor Pro has exactly the same software on their machine. Its the same executable. The licence unlocks the features.

Serato have 2 different applications. SSL and Itch. They are developed separately.

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And hopefully one day they will be one and the same… what a lovely thought.

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I hope that’s what they have in store next. You have a standard offline player and if you plug in a rane box you get “serato” with timecode control. If you plug in a current Itch controller you get “serato” mapped to a controller. What this would allow is an upgrade path for folks that purchased controllers that work with Serato DJ Intro. Would be pretty neat if it was a standard product for both sets of users.

I’m sure Traktor is outselling SSL/Itch. It’s cheaper. You can get TP fairly cheap and you can get a cheap controller to use it with. It’s not a big investment for the bedroom DJ or even the experienced DJ that wants to try it out. SSL on the other hand is at least 450.00-500.00 for JUST the Rane box that can’t be used with a cheap controller. So perhaps the upgrad path for Intro will make a dent in that market group.

I will say though, living in Miami SSL is the club standard around here. There are a number of popular local EDM guys that use Traktor, but it’s a small group. I see more really big name headliners that come into town using Traktor than I do local guys.

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Yeah, I think that is key in the subject of dominance. I have heard other US DJs say exactly the same.

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I will add though Karlos, the number of local EDM guys using Traktor is slowly growing down here — so there is an interest, but only in EDM guys. I’ve yet to see a hip-hop/open format Dj use traktor.

It kinda makes sense for the scene down here. Most big clubs down here where local guys play are mostly open format, and the mega big clubs (LIV, SPACE, etc) that are EDM clubs – bring in headliners. And there’s obviously more middle of the road clubs than there are mega clubs so SSL is used more.

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I believe you are having difficulty understanding what I mean in terms of options.

With Traktor, you can use your computer keyboard and map every feature Traktor offers to access it when needed. For a person who likes to blend music together, this broadens the user’s imagination. Traktor attracts more DJs who mix Dance music since having the ability to manipulate the audio track excessively and using multiple decks is common with DJs who mix Dance music.

You do not require a Turntable or a CD player for accurate pitch (or what some call tempo these days) control is the key for attaining a proper blend. Not focusing heavily on a rotational platter from a Turntable or CD player.

With Serato (Scratch), its main objective is simplicity as a Hip Hop DJ only requires a cross fader and the ability to offer stability when scratching at great speeds using a Turntable. A spinning platter is a must when scratching. So Serato (Scratch) attracts more DJs who spin Hip Hop for they focus more on their Turntables and, do not require the additional features Traktor offers.

You may find a few that go against the grain. However the majority of Hip Hop DJs choose Serato (Scratch) for the above reasons.

Cheers!

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^ actually I think most hip hop DJ’s use SSL because when DVS’s became poplular Scratch Live was the best product out and Final Scratch which later became Traktor was very buggy. So your best option not to carry a bunch of record crates was Serato. The EDM guys used CD’s and many still do. Im not familiar with the history of Traktor and how it became popular amoungst house DJ’s, I’m sure Karlos knows better than anyone here — but I’m guessing the set of features were to cater to guys like Richi Hawtin at the time and target a certain market.

I think it’s VERY unfair to say that hip hop DJ’s require less features and that’s why they use SSL.

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Traktor was around when Final Scratch was around. Traktor has always marketed heavily towards the Dance DJ. I believe I have Traktor version 1 one a CD I downloaded in the early 2000s.

Its not features, its simplicity. If you are having difficulty understanding what I wrote just ask. Don’t assume.

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I haven’t seen a single DJ in any of the clubs in Vancouver use Traktor. I’ll change that :slight_smile:

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I hang out in way too many clubs in NY but almost all that use software are using SSL. I don’t think i’ve ever seen Traktor used. I have seen Ableton once or twice.

In most high end clubs the opening guy is usually a local dude using SSL but then the main guy tends to be using CDJ’s with USB or CD.
Weird thing is i’m noticing more and more dj’s NOT use software at all. NY is a strange place.

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Gotcha.

The simplicity of the workflow in SSL is a bonus to ANY DJ, I believe. It’s why I use it over TSP.

I just think it’s an unfair statement to say Hip Hop DJ’s use SSL because the “do not require the additional features Traktor offers”. It’s a knock on hip hop DJ’s and there’s some very talented guys out there.

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I think serato is a favourite with commercial club djs that say they are hip hop but don’t really mix and just play rihanna and batman scoop all night.

in leeds the mix of hip hop djs on sera to vs tractor is probs 50 50. i think a lot of ppl are really getting into turntable controller hybrid routines.

think the ability to midi map things like load next track is a big plus for a lot of ppl.

PS i think the dead stop sera to has put on piracy has not helped there product i have seen a lot of ppl pirate tractor then buy it as they felt it was worth the money and wanted the latest updates and reliability il be honest thats how i got into traktor. it also lead me into other ni products now i have tractor scratch to a audio 8 a audio 6 maschine and a x1 probably getting a s2 aswell, so from me originally pirating tractor ni have done pretty well out of me

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It was also a complete freaking joke at that time. Final Scratch (and FS2) put NI on the DJ map, and there were things I liked about it better than SSL…sorta. But I’m partially convinced that there were only 3 reasons that SSL took off a bit faster than FS/FS2:

  • USB sound card as opposed to FW (for FS2)
  • Slightly less resource intensive.
  • It didn’t say “powered by Traktor.”

At the time, Traktor was marketed to the DJ who couldn’t afford (or didn’t want to buy) equipment, touting itself as the way of the future instead of just a cheaper option. It got decent and then NI rebranded it.

It’s also not true.

SSL has more useful view options.
SSL has full, live iTunes integration.
The SL4 and 68 have 2 USB ports and can connect to 2 laptops at once.
SSL lets you beat-match and scratch an Ableton session.
SSL does video.
SSL gives you free upgrades, so far.
SSL’s licensing is tied to a dongle that you need to perform anyway, not ServiceCenter
And SSL can use both MIDI and keyboard control, both of which are configurable.

Traktor gives you:

3 more hot cues.
More extensible (but also more obtuse) MIDI configuration.
A MIDI clock (which you could do with Bridge, but I digress)
Sample decks that are better than SP6 and about to be upgraded…but still bend over when Ableton comes to town.
More money left over when you’re done buying it.

SSL is less used with MIDI controllers, and I honestly don’t know how well it works…and you have to have a real mixer as opposed to an all-in-one because it doesn’t have a real summing bus. But because I like real mixers (whether analog or digital) better than any midi controller I’ve felt, I honestly think it actually wins on features…and still manages to seem simpler.

Where I come from, that’s called winning.

I’m giving Maschine a pass for now because it’s freaking awesome. But I’m not buying any more NI crap until they get their licensing straightened out and stop using the damn guitar rig, kontact, and reaktor players for everything.

I’ve seen the light, and it’s called iLok. If NI stops using those stupid players and starts using iLoks, I’ll go shopping again. But I don’t see either one happening.

I agree it’s probably a bit of a hit that you can’t pirate the software as an extended trial, but……the offline player does give you some functionality that you’d want to test. And it doesn’t quit after 30 minutes of wondering what the hell is going on in the keyboard mapping window that you can’t resize.

But, seriously, dongles are just a better way to do copy protection.