hi everyone, I’ve been DJ-ing for a very little while, and now I am considering to move forward to production. I would like to do Electro House and Deep House. but so far I have no hardwares except my DJ gear.
To start though, I would like to know sources on EDM production, all people must have learned it from somewhere, right?
Should I give a shot to the Sonic Academy though? or any other reliable sites where I can learn the basics and any components required to get started, then start producing all the way I want.
I am using a Macbook Pro right now, will Logic Pro X work fine for me? (It looks affordable for such a high-end DAW).
Or else I can wait until like December and grab the Ableton Live 9 Standard + Push.
I have some concern regarding the instrumental in music production, what is the complete setup to start producing? I actually see people using instruments such as Maschine, or Ableton Push. Are they both the same thing? (only separated by brand). and there also comes the keyboard like Komplete Kontrol etc.
What I want to do is:
Produce all the way I want
Do some bootlegs/remixes
Are those all gears mandatory for a full setup? What should I do now? I only have the free Reaper and Garageband without any instruments and that ain’t enough I believe. Should I just wait up til’ the end of this year and grab the Ableton Live + Push? Or go for the cheaper ones? Since Sonic Academy actually shows tutorials based on the DAW itself, how should I not go wrong?
I’m by no means experienced but I was in the same boat as you several months ago. I don’t know anything about Logic, but I personally use Live and can really recommend it as a platform. You can use it for production and performing and I find it really intuitive. It feels like I’m vastly more limited by my imagination and skill than Live itself.
What I did was buy a cheap set of midi keys to tap out chords etc (you don’t really need them but I much prefer that to using the PC keyboard). You can use soft synths to start playing around and I’d hesitate to shell out for a hardware synth until I knew what I was doing (unless I had money to play with). I also only recently upgraded my speakers to proper monitors and have realised just how BAD my mixes were beforehand… so I’d definitely recommend buying a pair of those as early as possible.
As to how to learn.. I managed to take advantage of a highly discounted beginners’ course from Live-Courses.com. The first level isn’t really in depth, but to begin with I think it’s important to know what kind of things the software is capable of.. I found that course great for that. It allows you to go off and play about competently and then build on top of that.
The truth is that you can find a huge array of very useful tutorials for free on Youtube, but I found having the structured tutorials to begin with helped because I didn’t know what I should be looking for. I’m afraid I don’t know how good the SA course is so can’t comment on that.
I’ve been using Logic as my primary DAW for over 10 years. It can definitely do everything you need to do to make house music. Some of the Logic instruments and effects are fantastic. You could make dozens of tracks using just what it comes with and still not touch everything. What you will find you are missing is hands on control and that is where maschine and push (or any other controller) come in. I use Logic with maschine (Push is only really for Live).
Maschine is both a plug-in instrument and a controller and the integration between the 2 is very impressive. It can also be used as a midi controller to say play Ultrabeat using the pads (something I do a lot). The great thing about maschine is that it comes with a huge collection of samples plus a smaller collection of plug-ins which can be used either in maschine or just as regular plugs in the DAW. So $199 for logic + $349 for a maschine mikro is going to keep you busy for literally years.
I really wouldn’t worry about a “complete setup” at this point (you will never complete your production rig - just run out of space or interest). What you will need though (and might have if you have a DJ set up) is decent monitors and a decent pair of head phones. If you’re at all serious about production - don’t skimp here. The biggest mistake I see new producers (myself included) is that they don’t consider the sonic accuracy of what they are mixing on. This leads to mixes that don’t translate to other rooms/systems.
As far as learning how to do it, I just dove in head first. Beating out rhythms and samples on a pad controller isn’t rocket science. You will hit hurdles when you get to mixing and more complex arrangements but that is what the internet is for. It’s much easier finding the answer to single specific question than “How do I produce house music?”. There are so many aspects of production - mxing, arranging, music theory, sound design - any one of which could fill volumes. The best way to figure it all out is just to finish tracks (no matter how crappy they may be at the beginning). I’ve always been good at self learning so YMMV.
With the Logic and Maschine though, it would cost me almost a good $550, but yeah the Live 9 Standard + Push itself would cost about almost 850 bucks though. Will the $300 worth it? and since I might do it for a while atleast, I’m expecting to do whatever producers can with those setups. and will this thing be needed? http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s-series/
I still had no idea how each one works though, and how do I base myself on certain tutorials that use different gears and DAWs. I haven’t been around in producing for even a while, so I don’t really know how those gears work with the software itself, any clarifications?
What’s my bet regarding the free tutorials or any online courses that are affordable?
I’m in a similar position to OP in that I want to do a course, but also unsure about their quality, so want to hear some views first. I also think that if OP can only afford Ableton Standard, then he should buy Logic Pro.
Ableton Suite is the minimum I would even use, if that is the DAW I went ahead with (which it is).
If you have the money spare, then it’s all relative. Are courses worth breaking the bank for? Probably not. Are they potentially a worthy investment? Absolutely. A lot of it depends on the student and how they learn/prepare/review.
Paying for a course is like paying for a personal tutor who should know more than you about something at any given moment.
I will accept however, that your course’s success is largely dependent on the quality of the teacher, something I know is variable.
but for the time bieng, its a waste to spend on such classes unless its something you know you want to get into. so many people get into it and then loose interest, and classes can get expensive
There’s two sides to it. One could also get discouraged having to look up everything and not having a dedicated resource to answer questions as they arise and therefore decide production isn’t for them.
In my opinion and experience, the first big thing to learn is what to listen for and how to hear when producing. It’s a lot easier to get that from a real, live instructor rather than a youtube (or other) video.
Can you learn everything taught in a course? Yes, but it will likely take a lot more time and potentially a lot more digging to finally get it. As mentioned, it’s really up to the person considering it, how they learn, how dedicated they are to producing and how much discretionary income they have. Once the decision to take a course is made, finding the right course is another huge consideration.
As both a Logic 9 user (never tried Logic X) and Ableton user, I can tell you that Logic’s interface is VERY well laid out. It’s MIDI routing and manipulation capabilities are second to none. Logic’s interface also feels more translatable to other platforms. If you learn to produce with Logic, you’ll be able to use Analog systems or ProTools with ease. Ableton seems to use more of it’s own “internal lingo.” I only use Ableton to perform with and it’s excellent for that- there was barely any learning curve for me to start using it. I’ve never produced with it but I’ve only ever heard good things. I have a friend who produces with Ableton and he loves it, but he’s shown me some of his projects, and I feel completely lost when looking at it. My Logic knowledge never really translated to Ableton knowledge.
As for hardware- you don’t NEED anything, but a keyboard and some knobs will help you alot, even if it’s something very basic. I use a tiny little AKAI LPK25 keyboard and an APC40 for its knobs and faders. There are plenty of affordable all-in-one midi controllers that have a keyboard, knobs, faders, and pads. I just always did my shopping piece-by-piece.
And finally, as for courses, I agree with calgarc on this. Don’t go spending money on very publicly available information. The best education on production and programs will come from the MANUALS. The first thing you reach for shouldn’t be a youtube video or a forum discussion- it should be the MANUAL. Whenever you get a new program or synthesizer or effect, take the time to read it fully. I’ve watched SO many people on youtube where it seems like all their knowledge comes from other youtube videos. It’s an OCEAN of redundancy. Read your manuals, and you’ll be able to school any youtuber easily.
All the reading in the world will only get you so far though- don’t forget that you’ll only get better with time and practice. Don’t be discouraged if your first bunch of tracks are crap, because they probably will be. Keep at it and there’s no way you won’t get better.
I mean… If I had the spare cash, I’d have gone to a school like Dubspot or similar.. But I couldn’t justify the costs so I made it work on my own.
I feel like I’ve done an exceptional job of teaching myself, but I know I would have gotten a bit more through direct sessions with professional instructors. I also lost out on those networking opportunities as well.
In terms of “need” I would put a big monitor ahead of any other bit of hardware. For simple edits, a laptop screen is fine. But, for any project that reaches an “interesting” scale, I want 1920x1080 as a minimum. That’s me.
Some MIDI keyboard is helpful if you know how to play a keyboard, or want to learn. I use an MPK Mini and it is more than good enough to use. I use the keys to input basic chords, and the pads to play with drum kits. The bundled Ableton Live got me a discount on the upgrade…and paid for itself that way. I don’t “need” it…but having had it for a while, I would grumble without it.
The “Ableton Live Power” manual is well above average in terms of quality, clarity, and coverage.
Subject to your learning style, classes may or may not be a good investment. I like/need deadlines. Classes provide deadlines. I like/need to understand what is happening. Classes provide a “tour guide” to the features of the product. I like having a “peer group” to ask/answer questions - this is a BIG part of how I learn. Classes provide a ready peer group.
When classes are not available, I need a firm project with specific deliverables in order to motivate my learning. This might be “find and add a classical music bed for this video of the kids,” or it might be “the sink in the bathroom is leaking.” In those cases, youtubing for videos and googling for help sites might be enough to get me started. That’s me. You are probably different.
Erin Barra’s Abelton class at Coursera is EXCELLENT. I could repeat this class, and the projects every 6 months and still be learning things two years from now…as my skills grow, my projects will grow as well. It’s not currently scheduled, but add it to your watchlist for updates. There are many other good classes on music theory, music production, and other topics of interest for a music producer. The quality is well above average, and the classes are free (as in beer).
I have basically been teaching myself Ableton for the last couple of months and have learnt lots. Going from arrangement view to buying a Push has enabled me to use the two fairly well and fairly interchangeably.
After meeting some Ableton guys at a music conference and pretty much receiving a 1:1 trial for 45 minutes, I decided that to take me to the next level in terms of skill and pace, I would enrol on a local course. Start tonight and completely looking forward to it.
At the end of the day, if you are smart and you want something badly enough, you can take many routes to get there.
Learning to produce music is like the fourth major pursuit I’ve undertaken in life, and I want to address the mistakes I made in the others this time around. One of the major mistakes I used to make was never wanting to spend money on myself and the pursuit, and wanting to do everything on my own and cheaply. I’m determined not to make the same mistake here, so even from very early on, I’ve spent a bit of money getting the right setup I need etc. It’s worked wonders for me, and most of it is to do with how it makes you feel mentally.
I see a course as a supplement to what I’m already doing - teaching myself, researching myself, practising everyday, learning about wider music theory etc. The mistake that most people who take courses make is that they think the course is the be all and end all of their learning, and do not work away from the classroom.
