I know… I don’t see what that has to do with what I said. In fact I didn’t mention traktor, serato itch or any controllers at all.
Typically, yeah. There’s usually not a good reason to offer users more than 100 steps of resolution across what’s typically a 60mm fader or smaller, so a 7bit absolute message is fine.
Of course, there are other reasons why sometimes not all values across a fader’s travel are expressed, but this has everything to do with the quality of the hardware and NOT a problem with MIDI.
Native’s own protocol is highly responsive when used in their closed system, yes. But that’s because Native has chosen to optimize for it and NOT MIDI. The problem isn’t that MIDI can’t be optimized for - it’s that software developers haven’t chosen to fully support it.
It makes sense from a business standpoint. Think about it. All those controllers out there from all kinds of companies - how do you distinguish yourself? Do you open everything up and become the same as everyone else, or do you take advantage of the fact that you control both the software AND the hardware and lock the really good stuff away for your own toys?
I don’t know for sure. I’m not sure how many counts of resolution the S4 platters have using Native’s protocol. I can’t fire up MIDIOX and look at it. But I can tell you that the SCS.1d has 4000 ticks per rotation. I haven’t measured controllers like the Otus, but I would guess they offer decent resolution as well. I’m guessing the VSM4 also has at least 1000 ticks per rotation. I haven’t measured them all, but there are a few right there.
My point in this thread is that phrases like “high rez” get thrown around alot without anyone really knowing what it means, how to measure it, or what the real benefit is.
@Kaek
That quote is more of the same. It’s unsubstantiated, open ended drivel. This is a website that caters to digital DJs, and people for whom the use of MIDI is normal. Instead of saying something can’t be compared, why not compare it? Or at least define it? Why didn’t someone fire up MIDIOX or similar program and figure out roughly how many counts of resolution the NS6 platter has? Is the performance of the platter symmetrical? Does the platter lose counts if it spins at a faster rate? These are all EASY measurements that can be done to actually define WHY platter performance is good or bad.
Don’t allow your opinion to be influenced by an article that is clearly poorly researched.
Well I was only referring to faders and pots since I don’t really have much interest in platters. Drivel seems a bit strong D:
Yup
Not too much to ask you wouldn’t have thought… only as Traktor works with a lot of controllers.
When my VCI SE gives up the ghost (one day it will) I may get an S2 anyway as that’s probably the best real world solution to what i want (High res 2 decks, built in sc, plug and play) but I really want something… cooler?
VCI400 maybe… but not if the jogs are only as good as a VC1-100 FW1.2
Unless DJTT hack the FW on that
crosses fingers
I hear all this chat about what “should” be the case and what hardware companies “should” do… but I just want to know what they do do.
I’m a geek but not a super geek
I know. And it doesn’t give me any joy to say it. But I also know that this website is very skewed towards Traktor, NI, and Vestax. When I read the NS6 review I see a whole section dedicated to it’s performance with Traktor. But in the S2 review I don’t see a word on how it performs with VDJ, SSL, or any other app. Why is it OK for Native to put out a product with dedicated software, but not Numark?
And in all cases, why isn’t there any discussion about WHY the performance of X or Y seems off?
Honestly you can’t go wrong with the S4 or S2 if your software of choice is Traktor. I personally think the S4 is solid kit, and the extra control you get compared to the S2 is worth the expense.
But if your software of choice isn’t Traktor, I would probably look at something else. All the mid to high end controllers now have decent platter messaging, so I wouldn’t worry so much about it.
Like I said, I’m not really talking about platters and even if I did I wouldn’t be talking about the NS6 with traktor. I’m only really interested in pitch faders and how on most midi controllers they seem to be a joke.
S’alright dude… I knew what you were asking.
The premise was, the VCI 100 is great but the VCI 300 jog wheels worked so much better with itch but im a Traktor user.
Personally i thought the VCI 400 jog wheels “felt” terrible. I just didnt like them. If you want me to quantify that in more exact terms… well i just did. I didnt like them. The tension dial thingy just gets in the way. The layout of the controller is a mess. Coming from the VCI 100 you might think that the 400 would be a natural step but it isnt. They don’t look or feel like brothers of the same family.
I genuinely think that you would love an S4 after a little time using it.
Ive read your posts and I know your feelings on the S4 and i know how much you love your VCI. I also know you trust that I wouldnt tell you this if i didnt believe it
Mate, totally trust your judgement.
Hmmm… I hear you on messy VCI400 layout.
I want to want the S4… probably if i used it for a bit i would get to love it.
I really like my X1 and I wasn’t sure about that at first…
Keep hoping something will come out that will just totally click for me.
reviving a deadish thread… sorry for that.
that being said…
what are the best traktor controller jog wheels currently on the market?
by best I mean, ability to scratch and do spin backs
interested to know, my ideal would be something like the way the vestax 300/380 performs with Itch, I have only every used timecode with Traktor and long for really nicely performing jogs that aren’t the clickly raised ones on the S series
the controllers that I know/assume that have hi res NI-supported (HID?) mapping are:
- NI S2/S4
- Numark 4track
- Pioneer DDJ-T1 (with a special version of Traktor?)
- Pioneer Ergo V (with a special version of Traktor?)
- Reloop Digital Jockey 3 Remix (hear a rumor)
have I missed something?
BASTARD.
The highest resolution Jogwheels at the moment are both Reloop products; the Digital Jockey 3 ME (and the new Remix edition), and the Terminal Mix 4. Both offer 4096 tick/rotation jogs, although physically the TM4 ones are slightly better (solid metal platters, slightly flatter than the Jockey, and about an inch bigger as well).
The closest any other controller comes is - if I remember rightly - the NS7 at 3,000 ticks/rotation.
the tmix4 platters look awesome but do they perform as good as they are speced in traktor? are they NI-supported some how?
I mean, I have some dn-sc2000s and they work with traktor for simple tempo adjust/pitch bend/nudge but I wouldn’t say they work good enough to do spin backs or scratching (compared to say the VCI300)
Yes and no. They’re by far the best of any controllers currently on the market, NI’s offerings included, and yet Traktor STILL isn’t taking full advantage of what they have to offer (and neither does Serato, for that matter). Basically, the TM4 can only really keep getting better as time goes on and the software manufacturers improve support.
That is of course assuming that any of the software manufacturers put in the work 
tried increasing sensitivity in mapping (not the unit)?
yeah i’ve spent a bit of time trying differnent traktor mapping settings for the sc2000s, they work good enough for mixing, just not responsive enough for scratchy spin back kinda bizness.
this is just my opinion tho, your milage may vary, over time i’ve gotten used to the responsiveness you get from traktor timecode and the jogs on the vci380/itch
i do still think the sc2000s are great controllers, very underrated, still the best pitch faders on a modular controller (until maybe the behringer drops someday…)