Midi controller jogs
Hi all,
What midi controllers Out at the moment have the closest feel to a pioneer cdj?
Does it all depend on hardware or does outward play a part to? If so what combination on controller nd software, give you the closest feel? (not including scratch setups using time code)
I’m trying to cut down on gear but don’t want to lose that feel of using a proper cdj if I can help it.
Many thanks all
MMM
Maybe something like the DDJ-Ergo or DDT-T1 or S1 depending on software maybe good. I think the wheels are similar? I’m just guessing though.
Depends what software.
S2 and S4 use proprietary code that means the jogs are tightly integrated with traktor and higher resolution than midi.
Vci380 is the serato itch controller to look out for IMO
Agreed. NI’s S2 and S4 have very tight response in Traktor, and depress slightly when touched. That being said, they are smaller than even a CDJ-250 (if memory serves), so if you want pure feel, I’d look at the S1. The layout and feel is very similar to a full Pioneer setup, and the jog wheels are taken right off the CDJ-400s. The T1 isn’t a bad controller either, but its soundcard is a bit lacking on the low end and you’d have to upgrade your software (which only matters if price is an issue).
The VCI380 is a beast of a controller, but it’s something less Pioneer-y and more controllerist-oriented. It looks like it’d be killer, though, and Vestax jogs are pretty nice…you’ve got quite the selection, even though the obvious answer would be the DDJ line (excluding the Ergo).
Not sure about the ergo but STEER CLEAR OF THE T1/S1. The jogs feel like the CDJ 350 at best - which is to say they feel absolutely awful, almost like Pio threw some sand in with the ball-bearings. I’d use an S2/S4 over the T1/S1 any day of the week. They are smaller jogs and they won’t freely spin quite as much as a real CDJ, but they’re nice and smooth and very pleasant to nudge the platter with.
If you want a pioneer knockoff you could always get the gemini CDMP-7000, you won’t find anything as close as this, it’s about $1000, full midi with cd players as well… Haven’t read any reviews from any trusted sources not trying to sell it, but gemini historically have been sub-par at best…
If you don’t like that numarks line of controllers (NS6, N4, mixtrack, mixdeck) are pretty similar, they have a larger size jog similar to pioneer’s and offer a little resistance when spinning, however not as much as mk111’s. Numark also use touch sensitive jogs, not pressure sensitive like Pioneer.
oh god. If they are like 350 wheels just forget it. Those wheels are AWFUL. Worst CDJ wheels ever.
Is the vci380 going to have better jogs than the vci400, which aren’t supposed to be very god are they? I have a vci100 with fw1.4 and to me they are no where near the feel of the real things?
Have any controller/software combinations come out that a turntablist could just pick up and to their thing? I ask this as some people would say you can scratch with a VCi100 as there are bids YouTube , but I would say not without learning a new way due to the completely different feel to a cdj \ turntable.
Anyone know?
Scraching the only thing that comes close (from what I’ve heard) is the NS7. Really though, if you’re scratching it’s DVS or bust.
The Jog Wheels on the T1 aren’t that bad at all. I’ve used an S4 and a T1 extensively and they’re basically the same. The ones on the S4 are just smaller.
I’m going to have to respectively disagree with you here. There are a couple of key differences between the S4 and T1 jogs-the S4’s have a nice rubberized feel on their outer rims, and they don’t travel as much as the T1’s do. The T1s are all plastic and have a noticeable scraping sound when you move them because of the ball bearings that are inside. They depress a lot more when held as well. Overall, the T1’s are a bit cheaper feeling (in my opinion) and the S4’s feel much better and are a lot more accurate.
Mmmm I’ll agree with you on the sound of the bearings, it’s noticeable if you’re mixing at a very low volume. The actual feel of them is down to preference (rubber vs plastic). I’d disagree with the accuracy tho. They’re both the same. My housemate has an S4 and I have a T1.. We’ve compared them quite extensively.
That said I only use them for nudging or slight adjustments, I’m not a turntablist. I actually prefer the larger size for that (I’ve come from a 1200 + CDJ1000 background… I just don’t like the smaller jogs on the s4… purely because of the size.
The S4’s native protocol, the T1’s midi - thus the S4 has higher resolution on the jog wheels and higher resolution = more accurate. How useful you may find that is debatable, but facts are facts.
Also, calling the T1 jogs “the same” as the S4 jogs is utter blasphemy - everything about the T1 feels incredibly cheap in comparison to the S4, which is funny considering it debuted at a higher price. The T1 took everything I hated about the buttons on the VCI-100 and made them even smaller/worse. Honestly, I wouldn’t use that controller if you paid me - the only thing it has going for it is the lights on the jog wheels and the layout, and even the lights are a bit of a gimmick. Just about every other controller in that price range is better than the T1 as well. I hate to foster buyer’s remorse, but the T1 is the epitome of “Pioneer is overpriced, cheap gear.” The S4 jogs aren’t perfect - they certainly are quite small. The buttons could be better as well - the corners tend to get stuck under the faceplate a bit too much. But still, the T1 isn’t even in the same league. And no, this isn’t rampant fanboyism - my S4’s on it’s way to the for sale section/craigslist anyway since I have my DVS setup now. The T1 just sucks that much. I’m sorry you’re saddled with one.
I seriously doubt gemini has implemented higher resolution MIDI in that. Might look like it but my money is that it doesn’t feel or respond like them.
Yeah right one fanboys opinion is going to change mine. facepalm I’ve been using the thing for 6 months I’m sure I’m in a better position to judge the merits of the T1 then you. I think you need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.
I did a bit of digging, you are probably correct about the jog resolution, I could only find information for the Gemini Cntrl-7 it is a HID controller that only uses a weird number of 138 clicks per revolution (not 128). Unfortunately I cannot find the information for any other controller they make.
In regard to the “feel” I have never touched one so don’t know exactly,but the only thing that feels like a pioneer is a pioneer… if anyone buys a gemini without first touching it they are fools.
It’s not full blown scratching I’m after, I like to scratch cue, drop a bar maybe and pull back etc… I know i can do the dropping a bar with cue button but its just not the same. I just want as close to cdjs as i can get so that mixing still feels fun.
Did you bother to read what I posted? The fact I was referring to was that the T1 uses midi to communicate with Traktor while the S4 uses NHL. NHL has far higher resolution and I do have experience using both. Even if you enjoy the feel of the jogs, that doesn’t mean they’re actually as precise as the S4 jogs.
To be clear - the following paragraph contains opinions. I have no emotional attachment to the S4 - I’m selling mine off - but I’m very glad that I went with it over the T1. I’m glad you’re apparently happy with your T1, but you’d better believe I’m going to say something if you’re recommending it to someone over the S4. Pioneer’s marketing made the T1 look appealing, but in person the thing just feels like a toy at best, and a waste of $1000 at worst. It feels like a controller that should have cost about $600, not the $1100 or so it debuted at or the $900 I saw it going for at Guitar Center recently.
Ns6 if you aren’t married to traktor. Best jogs I’ve ever used. Hands down.