S2 vs APC40

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
1

S2 vs APC40

Getting ready to invest in a proper controller to get going in a way that won’t want me wanting right away so I can work on my chops and build my sets.

I don’t scratch. I just don’t.

So I was wondering, for all you EDM players out there, if you are content enough with an S2 or S4 or if something like an APC40 (mapped to Traktor) would be something more suitable for EDM?

Price is about the same (including a usb interface for the APC) and they have about the same number of controls (well, maybe less knobs more faders, but mapping is mapping, anyone can get used to anything)

Thoughts?

(the only setup I’ve actually used for any period of time was a launchpad and a nanokontrol both of which I returned because I couldn’t afford to really do it at the time)

2

I don’t really scratch either, and I have owned the APC and the S4. The APC is great for launching clips and having lots of buttons to map at effects and just about everything you could think of.

However, the inconvenience of not having jog wheels and the poor response of the buttons makes it a deal breaker for me. I sold mine because I never used it.

If you are limited on money, though… the APC can be had for under $200.

3

I’m very limited on funds - where could I get an APC for under 200? I dont’ even see them that cheap on ebay!

BTW, you mention clip launching, but I’m not talking about using the APC with ableton live… I use reason for all my production work (and have never ever in the past 10 years found a good midi controller for reason… anywho…)

And I haven’t used one - poor response on buttons - you mean latency, or just don’t always trigger? Like I said, I had a LaunchPad and didn’t have a problem with those (not arcade buttons, but not the worst)

And what’s the deal breaker about not having jog wheels if you don’t scratch? you need them for scrolling through a track to find a cue point? Can’t you map a knob to that? (especially since the apc has endless encoders)?

4

APC…

In a few months…there will be the next controller out…and yours will be ‘the older’ model.

The APC40 is a tough beast. You can keep on remapping it in the future and keep up with the software. With apps like Extreme Mapping…you can use it for years to come and keep it fresh.

The S2 and 4 will be obsolete in a way…much like the VCI100 now.

But then again…I am bias and kinda shy away from all in one controllers that lock you into something.

5

Are you referring to the F1? More of a sample controller than a replacement for the S2, but I suppose you could map it to do whatever you want.

I’d go with the S2, and pick up an APC20 (<$100) when Traktor 2.5 comes out for managing samples.

6

I don’t use jogs…so the APC80 works great for me and is obviously versatile in the sense that if you produce too, its a Ableton controller.

Dunno what you mean with poor response on the buttons? I have no issue.

Its a blank canvas that you can use over and over. At some point there will be another all in one controller to match the latest software and technology.

But the choice is yours. If you just want jam…and mix tracks…be mobile and not have too many cables and connections to worry about…or don’t know how to midi map…then the S2 is for you.

7

You can find them on craigslist and eBay used for $200 or less.

By poor response, I mean they aren’t very sensitive and are rather small. They are more or less useless for beat juggling.

The jog wheels give you very precise control over setting cue points, loops, etc. Knobs do not. Also, at least from when I tried mapping my APC, the only knob that was genuinely “endless” was the master knob. The others were internally limited by the controller using a 1-127 value. But it could just be I wasn’t sure what I was doing.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic controller. It just didn’t fit with my workflow. I did love having lit buttons for just about every control I could imagine, though. If you’re on a budget, I think it’s a great choice.

8

I had intentions of mapping my APC 40 to traktor after selling my Hercules RMX (which was a great and tough lil controller BTW)… but after multiple mapping attempts, which did work nicely, just nothing felt comfortable the way I play e.g. multiple fX unit twisting, multiple EQ knob turning at once and between 2 or more decks.

Layer switching just doesn’t cut it for me AT ALL.

I like having a controller which represents the screen and I can’t reach for any control I need and its just “there” and the S2 does that like a champ whereas the APC, it takes looking to make sure xyz modifier or shift is in the correct position so something silly like an EQ was going to actually operate.

Doing pretty much anything normal on the APC felt jerry rigged, a “workaround” not a solution.

I’d honestly go with a S2, don’t forget you’ll need to factor in the price of the software ($200) + an audio interface ($100) if you go with an APC or something.

BTW having the APC “MADE” me go completely with Ableton rather than touch Traktor again.

[quote]The jog wheels give you very precise control over setting cue points, loops, etc. Knobs do not. Also, at least from when I tried mapping my APC, the only knob that was genuinely “endless” was the master knob. The others were internally limited by the controller using a 1-127 value. But it could just be I wasn’t sure what I was doing.
[/quote]

I had that master encoder set up with multipurpose function based on modifiers which worked nicely.

E.g. If track was paused it could be used to accurately scrub, if track was playing it would be used as pitch bend of course the issue being that it would only work on the selected deck (I had deck select set up on when cue was activated).

I know you can pull off some pretty awesome stuff on it, but I like to be relaxed and fluid, throw knobs around when I play and the APC / Traktor combo made me feel like I was walking on eggshells every mix.

My 2 cents and a half.

Oh also I’ll probably go with 2xK2’s instead when they are released for same number of functions in a much smaller package (with sound cards).

9

I guess nobody has used a launchpad for full control. I wasn’t going just for cues, but for all the buttons - pitch bend +/- cup, play, loop in/out, cues 1-4 (or 1-8 depending on my map) and I’m not sure if you can with the APC, but my LaunchPad map I customized all the LED colors (and blinky-ness)

Just wondering if anyone had experience using an APC as a main traktor controller.

(and I don’t think the S2 will be “outdated” just outdone, perhaps, but that won’t make it any less useful… guys still play with full technics (1200s and a mixer) with crates of vinyl and they’re not really outdated, so I’m not buying into that marketing nonsense.

I guess the only way would be to get one and see if I can get it to match my workflow (I’m fairly certain I would be all kinds of perfect with an S4 or S2 and a couple of fx controllers like the F1, but I don’t have that kind of capital to invest right now. Rather work on my SKILLS not my COLLECTION … er… setup…

10

just re-watched the NI video, btw, and realized that the only advantage I’m seeing for the APC right now is more knobs (for FX) and a crossfader.

Anyone know what that mixer is that is in the video? NI ever make a mixer? (or gossip about making one?) their hardware is pretty solid… and those pads look more like LP (or maybe maschine?) pads compared to AKAI which has little buttony buttons…

Basically, I am on a super tight budget (think: begging my wife for money for gear) but I refuse to get something like a mixtrack that will be like garbage in a matter of months (no offense intended to anyone who likes them!)

11

[quote]btw, and realized that the only advantage I’m seeing for the APC right now is more knobs (for FX) and a crossfader.
[/quote]

You mean over a launchpad ? … uhgggggg don’t like the idea of using one as my only controller and unless you like mixing without EQ :-S

And see my post above, I had it the APC mapped for Traktor before and just really really didn’t like it (EQ’s being one of the main reasons).

The new Behringer kit is coming out in a few months if you can hold off, dual deck controller looks pretty decent compared to the mix track, but only time will tell.

Seriously when it comes to DJ gear don’t compromise yourself or you’ll end up with money down the toilet in a few months when ur pissed off at the way it performs.

s2 is probably the honest BEST bang for buck out there and as I said free FULL VERSION software, and no need for a new sound card.

If you can’t buy it right now, wait a few weeks unless the money is burning hole in your pocket.

12

when I was using the LP I was also using a nanoKontrol (for fx, eq, and the 9th set was for master fader and xfade… I have the mapping on djtt somewhere…)

Let’s disregard software costs for a moment (maybe I buy a used S2 and the guy doesn’t give me the license properly, or…whatever story…) is the S2 the best Traktor controller in it’s price range? And now that they’re $400, a used one might be had for… under $300 perhaps if I’m lucky? compared to a used APC40 coming in at under $200 if I’m lucky.

I just feel that part of it is paying for the NI name, part of it is paying for a sound card (that I might rather have a seperate one that I can upgrade independently anyway) and part of me feels like I’d rather have some other funcitonality instead of the jog wheels (at this point, the Twitch comes to mind, but I know my way around Traktor enough that I don’t want to volunteer the switch, unless there is a really good reason to. Ean Golden uses Traktor, and in my worldview, he is the Pope of DJ)

I should have made this a poll…

13

I think NI products are actually quite reasonably priced, maybe with the exception of the Maschine series.

$400 for a HID controller… sound card… and the full version of the software is a pretty great deal. Isn’t the price supposed to go back up soon, anyway? So you’d be hard pressed to find it for $300 used anytime soon.

If you want to go a different route, the American Audio VMS4.1 looks to be a solid controller for the same price, with more features. However, it does not come with the software or as nice of an audio card.

14

in the for sale section the S2s have been going for $300 (the price is going back up when the new controllers come out??? I wouldn’t think of buying it from NI… it’s cheaper on Amazon - and I’d rather support DJTT and get it here - for the same price as amazon but with a bundle… but I digress.)

I’ll look into the American Audio unit for now - thanks for that tip.

To be honest, yes, $400 for the S2 bundle here is a great deal - I’m just so … cheap … I want the MOST control/reliability for my dollars, and other than the jogs being set to fx (like Ean’s video, which I love…) it still looks like other controllers (with or without sound cards) have more controls available.

Maybe I’m just being difficult here, and if so, I’m sorry and I thank you for your patience.

I guess another thing I was thinking would be that if I get an APC, then down the road if I get a deck controller I can keep the APC for FX control, or sample stuff, etc, etc, etc.

15

Go berhinger with their new modual layout

16

And be prepared to wait 4 months, still have no sound card and cost around $250 for the basics (2 units)?

17

And I’m not even convinced they look that nice… Maybe a fake X1 for $100 wouldn’t be so bad, but… the other things… (not sure if the “deck” units can function without the “mothership” with the USB hub… If they can, that might not be bad…)

18

APC40 has no soundcard either and it alone is 250-300 and a pain in the ass to map to traktor unless you use Padi’s mapping and not mess with it XD

19

eh, mapping is not hard, been there got the t-shirt.

More concerned with how the unit feels (if I can fit 4decks or 2+2sample decks onto a Launchpad + korg NanoKontrol and function well, then I don’t think an APC should be too much challenge… The LEDs aren’t super customizable like on LP, right? Time save there…)

Like, is there any distinct advantage of the S2 (or other comparable classic 2 deck USB controller) over the APC40 (besides jogs and bus power?) (sound card and chromacap faders not fitting well notwithstanding)

I found a deal for an APC for $200 here, might get him a bit lower, but wondering if there’s a legit reason to pass on that and spend the extra money for an NI unit.

20

S2 is a great deal really
a $100 sound card, $200 software and right now it’s like a $100 controller.

APC40 feels like a tank and you can get all you need on it esily… Buuuut Mapping LEDs on it is like scripting since each of the buttons in the launch section have 2 LEDs and different states. I tried mapping the LEDs and I borked the whole mapping since it needs Send states for all of them if im not mistaken and their ranges ect. it’s confusing to me.

Do you have an audio card though?