Stanto SCS.3?
What does DJTT think of the Stanton SCS.3 system?
http://www.stantondj.com/stanton-controllers-systems/system3.html
It looks kinda fun to me, I would love to implement it with my Traktor PRO setup. eBay has them for a good $200 to $300, which doesn’t seem like a bad investment for me.
I liked mine. I really liked the touch control for Fx in particular, and I still have it forsale.
I just moved on to the KS4.
Was it fairly intuitive to perform on? I’m worried about all the touch stuff being a novelty that makes it hard to do an actual performance on. I would like to have it as sort of a center piece to my setup, in addition to the X1 and whenever I find an iPad.
The default traktor mapping is quite good, you can customize it somewhat, but a lot of people complain that it’s not customizable enough unless you learn Bome’s midi translator, which is the software they use to create the ‘DaRouter’ application. IMO it’s a good little controller, some people use it along a DVS to do loops and cue points, others use it by itself, personally I use my single unit alongside my APC-40 and it’s mostly used as a jog wheel to do track cueing and the occasional scratching. You can set it up to do a kind of ‘fader fx’ mode like the VCI-100 mapping too if you are creative with mappings.
there is no preset for traktor pro 2 as far as I know, I may have to ditch mine unless I find one that at least works. any help???
They took forever getting a preset for Traktor Pro 1 when it came out; and since Traktor had the audacity to be released right after the SCS3d, it was really annoying. When the presets did finally come out they were buried on discussion boards and there were multiple versions which made it even more difficult. I bought the SCS when it first came out and then it sat unused for months because I had been hoping to use it with Traktor Pro. So I’m not surprised if it’s happening again with Traktor Pro 2. I always really liked this controller but support is difficult at best. Suppose I should sell mine at some point since I never use it anymore…
The idea is great but the support it is very limited because all the da router implementation it is just plain stupid to put a software between software and the hardware, it is buggy. So you can map it without da router but you lost the functionallity. They did it better with the 3m because you can change firmware presets in the hardware. In the other hand they took the approach that they are not obligated to do presets sending the product to doom. I really like the idea, the concept and the lack of moving parts but for example mapping the led feedback it is nightmare or the insinuation to buy bomes and learning how to use it to really customize the product just another pr stupid move
You’re exaggerating a bit here to add drama. First of all, there was nothing stopping you from using the SCS.3d with Traktor Pro from the onset. It’s a MIDI device. For that matter, there’s nothing stopping anyone from using it with Traktor 2.
As far as presets being on the forums go, the presets were on the forums when in beta, and bundled into DaRouter when official. The different presets were for different software packages. If a beta preset was updated, it was placed in the existing thread replacing the old preset. ALL preset threads were stickied to make them easy to find.
No offense, but the only reason you think the software layer is stupid is because you have no idea at all what it did. If it wasn’t for the DaRouter software, we wouldn’t have been compatible with Serato (because of their software limitations - not ours). There would have been no LED feedback in several programs as well because they didn’t support it at the time (we generated the LED feedback in the preset). It also allowed us to work around other software issues (like MIDI buffering problems). In the case of the SCS.1, it enabled us to implement a HUI preset for Ableton Live and most other DAWs out there. And of course, it allowed us to give a single layer controller multiple layouts and functions.
As for it being buggy, the same kind of software sits in the middle of a LOT of products - but they just hide the front end and install it like a driver. Wacom and Frontier Design Group are just 2 examples.
And this is the biggest single misconception surrounding the SCS.3 controllers. You ALWAYS had the option of remapping the controllers by changing the TSI. And that was what 99% of users needed to do to make what they wanted. Between Traktor’s ability to alias controllers (so no need to worry about conflicts between different controllers), and DaRouter’s ability to aggregate multiple devices into a single controller, I can think of only a handful of situations where you would need to change the actual control messaging. And even then, you had the option of going with the generic preset if you wanted a different mapping.
LED mapping was easy because it was all on a macro. You only ever needed one massage to control single LEDs OR clusters (like peak meters). And this is also exactly how Traktor works. To remap an LED to a different function, look in the TSI for the existing function and write down the message used to write to those LEDs. then delete the old message and add in the new one, copying the settings you wrote down. Or you could just look at the MIDI spec and use that as your guide instead. This is no different than any other controller. Feedback messages are defined on ANY controller. If you don’t send what the hardware is looking for, it’s not going to work right.
I did a lot of mappings with and without da router. The midi specs are useless if you want to map with darouter in the other hand without da router you can map exactly the way you wanted, feedback included, but you can not have vinyl mode and trigger mode in the center area like using da router. For me it is the major flaw and all the people I know who bought is no longer using it. It takes a long time to map the feedback with a lot of trial and error because the feedback messages are different that the input ones.at the end a lot o hassle with so so results. At the end most of the scs3 became paperweights because the lack of simplicity to make your own mappings, you can see it in the forums and a lot of customers disappointed . For example I have a vci100 and xone 4d and I have done my own mappings to do the controllers exactly what I want without hassle. And let’s face it darouter is buggy and took a lot of versions to be semi-stable. Still I have it and I think someone will solve those issues with a software or firmware solution like tech tools did with the vci100, the da scratch it is a clear example of a product that could been so great but the approach to make it compatible was not a good one. Take the scm3 and the options to change the behavior of the controller without the software was a great step forward but I see more possibilities on the dascratch. I know you were working at Stanton and did a great support job but the point of view that "you can do a lot but you need bomes and get a lot of time consuming effort put a lot of people off the product. 5 of 5 people that I know who got it, abandoned it because there are plenty of more user friendly solutions.
Cheers.
You’re asking for the ability to change the FUNCTIONALITY of the controller - not the ability to map towards it. And NO CONTROLLER on the market lets you do this. Some controllers let you change small things, like what particular CC message an encoder sends, but they don’t give you multiple layouts with wildly changing functionality like the SCS.3 does. So in that aspect, the SCS.3 controllers operate just like any other controller. The fact that Stanton used DaRouter to give them so much more functionality built up the expectation that you’d be able to change those behaviors. And it IS possible through BMT programming (on other controllers this would NOT be possible, because that behavior would be handled via firmware and not available to the user at all).
No, it doesn’t take any trial and error. The LEDs are being written to in the TSI. As I said before, all you need to do is look at the message in the TSI and COPY IT. If you’re having a problem with the last byte message on an LED array (like a peak meter), and you want it to do a sweep pattern instead of a boost/cut, then you can either look at the MIDI spec (the last bytes don’t change), or just keep moving up in value until you hit the next macro.
There’s a handful of users on the Stanton forums, and THOUSANDS of users who bought the SCS.3 controllers (it’s very safe to say there are tens of thousands of SCS.3 controllers in the market). You have no idea what happened to “most of the scs3”.
And both of those controllers combined don’t have HALF the messaging or feedback the SCS.3d does even without a preset.
No, DaRouter hasn’t been buggy since the initial release (where there as a problem with the virtual ports in newer operating systems). If you were having performance issues with DaRouter, they were almost always down to one of 3 things (sketchy USB power, AV software or user rights not allowing the virtual driver to be installed, or a corrupt installation in the first place). All 3 of these issues were well documented on both the forums and by service personnel.
Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. Again, you do not need BMT to do 99% of what a typical user would need to do to remap an SCS.3 controller. Between the option of doing a direct mapping and using one of the many different presets available, there is a wide variety of mappings possible. Now, if you wanted to do something like change an absolute encoder to relative, that would require a preset change - but at least it’s possible. How do I change the output of an encoder on the Xone 4D (let’s say I wanted to change CC37 or CC45 to an absolute message)? Or how would I change a button’s output from a note to a CC? How is the Xone 4D MIDI implementation any more flexible than the SCS.3?
In xone you can change the midi channel without software, you have an extra layer for all midi buttons and knobs with a shift function, sending messages in midi channel-1, without software. You can change the behavior of the lighpipes, again without software and the output of an encoder you can do it with bomes, just like the da scratch. With bomes you can do it all the flexibility of da router but the da scratch does not have the hardware based flexibility of the xone
I still think to buy a SCS.3d to go together with my iPad and external mixer.
I really like this controller, it was SCS.3d that make me think about touch interfaces.
I think that it really changed the Digital DJing world, much more then lemur and much before iPad even exists.
And this can be done with a modifier in Traktor using the DECK button output to set the modifier state. Or…
You an change the MIDI channel of either the SCS.3m or SCS.3d using nothing but the controller. Read the manual. BTW, you can also change the channel of either device using a SYSEX command.
And again, just because you haven’t learned HOW to do this with the SCS.3 controllers doesn’t mean it’s not possible. It’s not only possible to change the behavior of the LEDs without DaRouter or BMT, it’s EASY. You just vary the last byte of the MIDI message. Let me say this again… YOU DON’T NEED TO DO ANYTHING BUT CHANGE THE LAST BYTE OF YOUR MESSAGE. BTW, just HOW are you changing the “behavior” of the lightpipes in the X4? They’re either on or off. In the SCS.3 controllers, you usually have not only on or off, but also multiple colors available. In the case of arrays, you have multiple feedback patterns.
The only “hardware based flexibility of the xone” is a button that does a -1 to the MIDI output message. Otherwise it is what it is.
Oh, and while we’re talking about it I’ll add this. The SCS.3d sends both an absolute and relative message (as well as note on/off) for EVERY slider. So there’s NO NEED for BMT to turn an absolute message into relative (or vice versa). All you need to do is to map to the appropriate message. And because every slider not only sends both types of CC message but also note on/off when you touch it, you can use the sliders to do some pretty sick things that aren’t possible with tactile controls. A good example of this is to use a slider to turn an effect on while you’re touching the slider, and the position of your finger controls a parameter in that effect. I personally use that for the beatmasher and it sounds sick. Oh yeah, and that’s without using DaRouter.
well all of this is making me want one 
seem to go for about 50quid 2nd hand for a single SCS.3d on uk ebay - quite a steal.
the only odd(ish) thing i can makeout from reading this thread is that it’s a different message to change an led compared to the noteout from that control - but i hardly see that as a biggie and i’m sure there’s reasons for it being that way (that i don’t understand as haven’t looked at it’s midi spec yet)
The notes follow the output messages on the hardware. The reason it APPEARS that way is because tito is looking at the output of DaRouter - not the native messaging of the controller.
So if you’re addressing the controller natively, you follow the MIDI spec. If you’re modifying a TSI related to a DaRouter preset, it’s best to take note of the messaging used in the TSI and copy it in your new message. So (for instance) you want to map the pitch slider LEDs to deck phase instead of the preset default pitch - look at the pitch output message in the TSI, copy down the values, delete the old pitch output message, and create the new phase output message using the values you copied down.
cool - makes sense. i probably wouldn’t use the darouter app then as my own homebrew app gives me multiple virtual pages for any device etc and handles any mappings. i’m very tempted to pick one up now…
the scs 3’s are cool units.
I had them for 2 years and loved and hated them at the same time.
I was using them with ableton and decadance so for me changing the midi CC # output to avoid input conflicts with other hardware was essential but also a major hassle.
on its own in a DJ program only they are very easy to setup and use, but if you have any thoughts about using them outside of a DJ program (Live) forget it.
I spent so many hours changing things in bomes that it just burned me out and I got rid of them.
my only complaint is that it has so much potential outside of DJ’ing that your imagination will go crazy, but implementing those ideas is a serious pain in the ass.
I still think I should have kept 1 of the scs3d’s but I had to sell them as a set to get a buyer.
are you a DJ Only? if yes then they are a safe purchase.
if you want to use it with ableton live for custom stuff its a nightmare of bomes programming, bomes is also $80 extra.
my only real complaint is that I bought them when they were very new and did not know I would need bomes to edit there messages.
I was very unhappy with needing to spend an extra $80 for a software editor for them, I had never owned a midi controller that required and extra sofware purchase to be able to edit messages.
all my novation, korg, akai and m-audio stuff had a software editor included with the product and I just expected this to have midi editing capabilities as well.
man I was pissed when I realized that I would either have to spend an extra $80 on bomes or shelve the $400+tax dollars I spent on them.
stangely though the scs3m(mixer) does not need darouter or bomes its all hard coded to the unit, the scs3d’s(decks) are darouter/bomes dependant.
they can be cool but a big hassle too.
i certainly won’t be needing bomes anyway - as my own homebrew app (which i’ll be sharing with the forum when ready) does all i need. it supports addons to be coded in the LUA programming language so for example i wrote one function to emulate a midifighter for one page of my launchpad
this code will stick 2 midifighters in normal mode in the top half of page 2 of the launchpad layout and a 4banks mode midifighter below them on the left using default colors:
create_midifighter("launchpad", 2, "midifighter1")
create_midifighter("launchpad", 2, "midifighter2", 0, 4)
create_midifighter_4banks("launchpad", 2, "midifighter3", 4, 0)
so i don’t really care what notes/cc/channels a controller sends and receives on so long as i can work out what they are.
the idea of my app is to aggregate/mashup any number of controllers and allow output to be routed to any app. the ‘midifighter’ functions send out to their own virtual midi device (created by loopMIDI) so i can just use the official midifighter maps - while most output goes to either a virtual midi port for traktor or one for ableton live.
so my main interest is really just the layout of a controller and what buttons/faders etc it has - as well as the price ofc 
edit: link to my first attempt at emulating the midifighter in lua is here
This is (mostly) valid, especially if you want to use them with a specific preset but are having conflicts. But you can always change the channel of the OTHER device causing the conflict.
As for using them in Live, it wasn’t any more difficult than using any other MIDI controller in Live. In fact, for the 2009 NAMM, I did a setup where I had 4 SCS.3ds connected to Live - each controlling different tracks (inspired by Moldover’s Octomasher installation). Again, the only time you would need BMT is if you wanted to change the behavior of the controller. And even then, only if none of the available presets gave you want you wanted.
Stanton decided to build logic into the SCS.3m as a reaction to opinions like yours. Honestly, I think the hybrid approach taken with the SCS.3m was the best solution possible (works in super slider mode with DaRouter, or with built in logic without it). There was actually an alternate firmware worked on for the SCS.3d at one point that made it work more like the SCS.3m, but it would have broken some other functionality in the process because there wasn’t enough room in the firmware to implement it correctly.
I think the biggest “mistake” that was made with the SCS.3 controllers is that they were never expanded on. If Stanton had followed through with the line, they would already have the next evolutionary product in the market and a lot of this discussion would be moot.
definately a shame they didn’t try something else using this type of technology.
esp as touch strips are starting to become popular on various controllers and is using ipads etc.
tbh i had previously thought the SCS.* devices were quite new as i’m very new to all this stuff myself