The Bridge vs Syncing Traktor with Ableton

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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The Bridge vs Syncing Traktor with Ableton

Hi, as the title says, what do you think is better? Currently I work with Traktor for DJing and starting to learn how to use Ableton.

I don’t mind switching to Serato if it will be more comfortable with Ableton, although I am having some problems understanding Serato Intro right now.. (What is that pitch bend with the red and orange?)

Do you think The Bridge is any better of syncing Traktor with Ableton?

Also, for TP2 + Ableton users -
how do you work with both programs if you only see one of them on the screen? I mean, let’s say you have Launchpad + S2, you mix with the S2 so you see Traktor on the screen. How do you work with the Launchpad without seeing Ableton?

Thank you very much!

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I don’t think the Bridge allows you to run your decks through Ableton effects for some reason, which to me greatly limits the utility of the Serato/Ableton combo. But if you just want Ableton for triggering samples then the Bridge is probably awesome. And the “mixtape” thingy is really great too; you won’t be able to do that on Traktor either (although I think someone once posted a way to do it with applescript or something? Or am I imagining that?). The other advantage to the Bridge is it just works - no fiddling; a couple preference changes and you’re up and running; very intuitive.

Traktor/Ableton is much more difficult to set up, since you have to do the whole MIDI clock connection and use a virtual soundcard to get them to talk to each other properly, but if you set it up right you actually have all four decks going through different channels in Ableton, greatly multiplying your possibilities for shaping the sound coming from your Traktor decks. (Of course this would be far more useful in Serato where you have crappier effects; a lot of the effects in Traktor on the other hand are pretty damn good already). You also have to sync the clock periodically; the times I’ve done the traktor/ableton thing the clock would drift periodically.

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Traktor + Ableton is infinitely better than The Bridge due to Serato’s audio routing limitations. The visibility issue is solved with an iPad.

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So you’re saying that Traktor & Ableton is able to do what The Bridge does, just more. Or is there anything that the Bridge can do that Traktor + Ableton can’t?

About the difficulty in installing, don’t really mind currently - I will try for sure.

Thanks!

BTW
What can I do except adding samples and loops with Ableton on the fly?

What do you mean by ‘visibllity issue’?

Thank you very much!

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What this all boils down to is the Control Vinyl issue. Serato can (kind of) integrate control vinyl into Ableton. Traktor routed into Ableton is an awesome combo - BUT - it doesn’t really work with traktor control vinyl.

With teh bridge, you can control abletons Master Tempo with CV.

Now - if someone can show me a way of routing Traktor into Live, and have Live follow the tempo of Traktor while Traktor is being used w/control vinyl - well, that’d just be swell.

(Cue Mostapha w/the “manual beat-match” argument… :thumbsup:slight_smile:

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Yes - the “mixtape” functionality doesn’t exist for Traktor.

[quote]
BTW
What can I do except adding samples and loops with Ableton on the fly?[/QUOTE]

Run Traktor decks through Ableton effects; you can only do this with Traktor since Serato has the routing problem.

That would be truly awesome. Or if you could scratch Ableton clips on timecode as well.

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You can achieve mixtape functionality with traktor but you need to map a mixer to all of abletons functions (eq, cross fader, one fader). I have done it with a djm 900 and a audio 8 dj but it’s really more trouble then it’s worth.

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[quote=“Patch, post:5, topic:41682, username:Patch”]
(Cue Mostapha w/the “manual beat-match” argument… :thumbsup:slight_smile:
[/quote]My ears are burning.

That’s always an option. And in some cases, I think it’s the best option because Live sucks at following a MIDI clock. It’s good at generating them, and Traktor can follow just fine. But without using sync (in Traktor) it doesn’t work right……or defeats the purpose of vinyl control.

[quote=“djproben, post:6, topic:41682, username:djproben”]
Run Traktor decks through Ableton effects; you can only do this with Traktor since Serato has the routing problem.
[/quote]Yeah…it was surprising as hell that I couldn’t find an answer to that for a long time after Bridge came out. The “Serato Device” is a 0 in, 2 out sound card (with my SL1…the SL3 and SL4 would be different)…which is bullshit.

BUT…You don’t have to use that card for Live, even when you’re using Bridge (tempo control, even CV control, Bridge pane in SSL’s gui, etc.).

So, you could run SSL’s signals through Live…you just need another sound card for Live. I’m told Jack Audio Router will do that in software by stealing the output stream from the Serato Box and sending it somewhere else. I’m not sure of the details, but the guy I heard that from was very convinced. I just haven’t gotten around to it because I don’t care.

Setting up Live with CV/CCD control (on a 3rd deck, ideally) and with a separate sound card would be easy. And you could use an effects loop on your mixer to access Live’s effects. If you have a decent computer and a decent sound card, latency wouldn’t be that much of an issue.

So, it’s all doable. And the real battle b/t Bridge and MIDI Clock is a question of how you want to work.

If you want Live to follow the tempo of vinyl, Bridge is your only option. It just doesn’t work with Traktor well enough to use.
If you want to use sync for everything, use Traktor…make Live the tempo master, and sync Traktor to it.

You can’t do that on SSL either…you can forward scratch the whole set…and that’s it.

Every time I think about this, though, I come back to one question: if I need to use Live to perform my set the way I want……what is Traktor (or SSL) adding? Ableton can already play full tracks just fine…has better effects…has more control…has a better mapping system…etc. Traktor/SSL give me traditional-feeling DJing with a bunch of features shoehorned in…that Ableton does better anyway.

When I first started experimenting with Live, I still spun vinyl. And Live never integrated well. Same with SSL pre-bridge and CDJs.

Most of the time…it’s been an Ableton or anything else choice for me. And there was definitely a time with Live won. I could see it happening again in the future (though I’d never sell my turntables to buy a controller for Live again). But it’ll still be an either/or thing.

Live is awesome, but it doesn’t go well with a traditional workflow. And I don’t think anything exists to shoehorn it in. Bridge is closest if you have a 3rd table to devote to Live, but it’s still not quite there. And I don’t think it works any better than just mapping a pitch fader and nudge buttons to Live.

As always, YMMV.

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The mixtape is the only thing that Traktor don’t have that Bridge does? What exactly does it do?

Also, for TP2 + Ableton users -
how do you work with both programs if you only see one of them on the screen? I mean, let’s say you have Launchpad + S2, you mix with the S2 so you see Traktor on the screen. How do you work with the Launchpad without seeing Ableton?

And another question - Will Launchpad mimic the functionality of Ableton? I mean, it has no knobs so how will I control, for example the beat repeater?

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Someone? :slight_smile:

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I just switch with ALT + TAB between them. Mostly I’m at the Traktor screen and once in a while I’m in the Ableton screen looking for my FX parameters (I use the Kontrol X1 with a userconfig.txt; I can control different FX racks (8 parameters) with my X1 knobs).

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What’s user config? How can you map MIDI controllers in Ableton?

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Lots of tutorial on Youtube.

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[quote=“BomBin, post:12, topic:41682, username:BomBin”]
What’s user config?
[/quote]A simplified version of MIDI remote scripting. It’s one method for mapping controllers in Live.

I realize most people don’t know about MIDI remote scripting, but if you’re asking that……uhh……don’t you think you should probably figure out if/how you want to use live before you worry about what products get closer to some unknown goal?

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This is a question that cannot fully be answered yet because the second rendition of “the Bridge” (the release for ITCH), has not been released yet (and oh boy do I wish it was). So noting this, I will attempt to address most of what you asked here.

Ableton Suite (the version you really want because it comes with a lot of instruments) has Max for Live which means there are a lot of intricate things you can do in Ableton that you simply cannot do with the Sample Decks in Traktor Pro. Even if you don’t use Max for Live, one of the biggest selling points about Ableton is the ability to use VST plug-ins… there is no comparison in Traktor because Traktor is a closed loop that doesn’t even like to work with Maschine, even though Traktor has some really neat effects. Sure, you can output sounds TO Ableton and process them there… but that’s not internal and you certainly cannot non-destructively edit them later. If you use “the Bridge” everything is in one window (in your Serato Scratch Live interface). You can resolve this issue for Traktor by getting another monitor and setting the interface for Ableton there, but now you’re starting to carry more gear and you’re either using up one of your USB ports (think Powered USB hub at this point) or lugging around another VGA monitor… set up shop much? I can’t say enough about how poorly MIDI Time-code is for synching two programs… It’s a heartache and a pain in the butt… you almost get it right and then two machines fall out of sync. I don’t see how Traktor with Ableton can be better than a system designed to work together (Serato Scratch and Ableton), but that’s someone’s opinion and they’re certainly entitled to it.

When you launch both Ableton and Scratch Live, the screen on Scratch Live changes… to include the Ableton (Live/Suite) interface. I’m not sure why someone is having routing problems with their version of “the Bridge”, but all routing should be integrated in Scratch Live through the interface… it’s as if you opened up Ableton inside of Scratch Live. ALSO, When you record in Scratch Live (with Ableton) you can non-destructively edit your mix (you can move tracks and transitions, make a different loop happen and/or add or take away effects) as though it were a working file in Ableton from the get-go… so YES, I think Synching works better because the programs are integrated. One important thing to remember about Ableton is that it is a FULL D.A.W., which means you can create and play back MIDI files and even play live music through the application IN REAL TIME… you can’t do that with Traktor on it’s own AT ALL. There is some issue with scratching decks in “the Bridge” however quite a few people have resolved this problem by using the Max for Live plug-in “Ms. Pinky’s” (yeah, it’s a funny name) and with that, you CAN scratch anything you want. Ableton is VERY flexible and you can map almost anything with the very easy to use “MIDI Map Function”, but it doesn’t have the sexy “Visual Wave Forms” for your music tracks (yet) and it’s not really easy to control the BPM from one deck to another… Ableton just isn’t set up for DJing in the same way Traktor or Scratch Live/ ITCH is (yet), but I don’t doubt someone will attempt to make a Max for Live Plugin that will do this soon.

Regarding the Launchpad… (oh boy, how do I really approach this)
You know how you can assign things to buttons in Traktor? Think of the Launchpad as a REAL TIME button assigning extravaganza in Ableton. You don’t have a lot of feedback “what a button represents”, you make those options available by assigning them to buttons and then you have to remember what each one does (or you try it out and see). One upside to the Launchpad is that it has 2 LEDs that control the color of the buttons so (more or less) you have at least 5 states: Off, Red, Orange/Yellow and Green and Blinky (on-off-on-off… never tried to see if it can blink two different colors)… you really have to USE any controller with Ableton to understand for yourself how things work. If you’re going to use Ableton, I strongly recommend picking up a dedicated Ableton Controller (like the Launchpad, APC 20/40 or a really fancy Keyboard like the ReMOTE SL series or AKAI MPK series) but MAKE SURE you get controls for the knobs and sliders as well because you WILL want to use them) the buttons don’t just mimic the functionality of Ableton, they ARE the functionality of Ableton (including feedback regarding the location where your triggers are in application on the Launchpad itself where which clips are available when you scroll up/down your clip window).

Truthfully speaking, even when Native Instruments implements all of the functionality of their products into Traktor, “the Bridge” will still be better because it’s designed to be flexible and meet all of your needs even if is rather heavy on your system resources.

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Excellent post^^ One thing though I think is incorrect; There is no Ableton Studio but Ableton Suite is what I think you’re talking about; it does not to my knowledge come with Max4Live. Unfortunately the latter is a bit pricy still. But thanks for all the details; this has me considering taking another look at Serato.

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This thread has got me so pumped for my Livid OhmRGB slim and Ableton. Looking forward to new challenges!

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djproben: you are correct on both counts. Ableton Suite is the name of the full-fledged Ableton line, (I changed my post to reflect this)… I think (as I recall anyway) Ableton Suite came with a Max4Live… at least as a separate download. I got it when I picked up Ableton Suite (hoping that the Bridge would be released for ITCH soon). I don’t think there was an extra charge for it.

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i’m routing mixxx or traktor into ableton, mapping mixer controls to the levels+eq in ableton, so no real need to actually look at the ableton gui. same goes for any other effects and clips buttons u have mapped - just make sure you have decent led feedback so u never need to look at the gui. ofc sometimes it just feels ‘safer’ to look at the interface so i’m just switching between them when i need to, each app maximised on it’s own desktop.

u have three different intensities per led as well as ‘off’ so have a bunch of different colour combos. blinking two diff colours is a bit of a nightmare and def not possible via simple midi mapping. you’d need to send a message to disable flashing in the launchapd, send a message to set the first colour, then flip the launchpad buffer by sending another message, send the 2nd colour to the same pad without the copy bit set and then a message to re-enable flashing. possible tho :wink:

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Great post DigitalTiger. Unfortunately Max for Live is currently a paid download on top of Ableton Live, but well worth it if your are into customization. Also unfortunate is that there are no Max for Live plug-ins designed to be used with The Bridge. I recently contacted Serato about developing one but so far the response hasn’t been what I expected. I’ll contact Ableton about it soon though, hopefully they will be more helpful.