So lately I have been thinking that having a controller for my production inside ableton would help me come up with some new ideas on the fly and get them down quicker than pointing and clicking. The only controllers I use so far are my 25 key keyboard and a maschine mikro. I like maschine a lot for getting drum ideas down, but honestly everything I make eventually ends up in ableton anyway where I do most editing. I’m thinking about possibly getting push based on the fact that the rotary controls would help with automation while I step sequence and its the absolute tightest integration with my DAW.
So for those of you with push, did it really help your workflow in the ways I described?
The other option is to get a small controller with a lot of endless rotary knobs that I can then assign to control effects in ableton. Can anyone recommend a controller like this?
I just got Push a couple days ago, admittedly an impulse buy and a rather large one at that. I’d been eyeing it for a while, wondering if I’d actually get much out of it (or something similar to it like Machine) since I’ve played piano on and off since I was a wee tyke and have a keyboard MIDI controller.
So keep in mind, this is just with a couple hours use over the last two nights, but…the thing is flippin amazing! The sequencing is really brilliant both for drums and melody/harmony. The scales function is insane to figure out chord progressions that work, and while I haven’t played with the recording of automation much yet, I have about a million ideas for ways to use it in the future. It’s also nice to have a nob to check different parameter values instead of a mouse click and drag, let alone recording it easily. (granted one could do this on another controller by MIDI learning, but that requires going back to the computer and right clicking…)
The one major drawback I’ve found so far is that Push is really good automation/parameter changes with Live’s instruments and effects. It doesn’t work “out of the box” with external synths/effects easily, but again, I haven’t tested this much yet - I’d really like to be able to control the effects on some of the Valhalla or FabFilter stuff I have. However, there is a guy that’s written some mappings for all of Komplete, and it includes Machine Kits. The mappings are called AudioModder ($20 AUS) and so far it looks pretty nice. Again, I haven’t explored it much and don’t have a Machine to tell you what kind of integration with the Machine stuff you might export would be like, but…something to look into if you do wind up getting the Push. There’s also an add on called PXT-Live that allows you to chop up audio samples and play them in the sequencer which is really cool in addition to PXT-Live Plus which adds additional chord playing functionality.
IMO, Push has already HUGELY increased my productivity by keeping me away from the computer, giving me easier ways to experiment besides the fact I can easily work with it on my couch where I brainstorm as opposed to having my 49-key MIDI controller on my lap or next to my laptop. I’ve already banged out a good chunk of two different song ideas just playing around, getting to know it. I’m sure as I get to know it better, that productivity and creativity level will continue to increase.
This is IMMENSELY helpful. Well I cant say immensely based on that fact im prob about to spend 500 bucks now haha but thats kind of what I was looking for and seems like you are using it exactly as I would. I have been doing some research and found that if you make racks with your external VSTs you can assign your knobs to control parameters of them, then simply save the rack for future instances of that VST (if that makes sense lol). The main thing that “pushes” me towards buying it (no pun intended) is that it looks like it can pretty much replace most of my controllers as an all in one unit (and the scales function looks like it will save me a lot of time). That paired with the fact that I pretty much strictly use ableton anymore kind of makes it a no brainer.
Thanks again and keep me updated on your experience as you get more familiar with it!
I started producing when the Push came out so my experience WITHOUT the Push is limited. Anyways I own a MIDI keyboard and a mouse and keyboard as well so I know the differences
For me Push is a great way to learn and to have a hands-on-experience. I could write pages about what is great on the Push, but there are things you should consider as well: “What do you need that you expect the Push do be able to do?” and “Is that worth $500 (or $350 used)?”.
The more I learned about production and Live, the less I used the Push for a lot of things. When I started I did everything on the Push, since it was a lot cleaner than Live itself, but now I am just much quicker with the mouse and keyboard. Also Push does about zero when it comes to arrangement view.
What I still use Push for (that does not mean Push CAN do a ton more!!): scaled notes mode. Sadly that’s about it at the moment. Sometimes the drum sequencer is a lot of fun, but I feel that once you KNOW what you want the Push is slower than a mouse or at least not faster.
Strangely enough I almost never use the Push for tweaking parameters. Eight knobs is not a lot when it comes to Operator or Analog.
However this is just my workflow and not the Push itself. (Have I said that you CAN do a lot more than I actually find useful? )
Well I think you got the point.
hmm good points here…I have been producing with Ableton for roughly 2 years now and I am pretty familiar with it so I pretty much am in the same workflow as you. I already have a step sequencer in Maschine, which works well enough but I only really use it for drum sketches. I feel like Push’s keyboard mode would help me to use it for creating full songs rather than just the drum section. The most frustrating part of my workflow is trying to tweak multiple parameters at a time (i.e. in an EQ 8 moving the frequency and Q value at the same time). pointing and clicking and dragging is just really cumbersome. So this is why I am on the fence about it because technically speaking I could get something like the novation launch control and assign the knobs, but that just adds yet another controller to my collection where I feel like push would be more of an all in solution.
Yes, you can control macro parameters, but from what I believe, those won’t show up as “named” parameters in push. Push only shows 8 parameters to be modified at a time, so you have to “scroll” through them. Without the names, it could get messy and confusing with the third-party VSTs. This is why the AudioModder interface if you have Komplete is VERY nice!
It could most certainly replace most external controllers, but as a piano player, I still like the expressiveness of an actual keyboard and any clips that required/would benefit from expressive playing would likely get played from a keyboard, not push - at least in my situation. But, Push’s ability to just play around with notes/chords is where I’ll likely be spending a lot of my time.
I can see tilldrop’s points as well. I really can’t see myself using Push to do sound design - even with Live’s own instruments that are mapped well to the knobs on Push. It’s more intuitive to have the entire UI at my disposal - or at least those are my thoughts now. But, for tweaking parameters to see who this would sound, etc. and actually recording automation…I think Push is really helpful.
I haven’t tried modifying multiple parameters on EQ8 yet. If I have a chance tonight and can remember to do that, I may give it a try and let you know…
So yeah, your workflow and mine may differ regarding how useful Push could be.
So far as getting simple ideas started it’s epic! I can get ideas down in seconds without touching the keyboard or even looking at the screen.
Touch activated controls bring so much feedback to the device you really don’t need to move away from push. I’ve not used machine but I did sequence on an MPC 2000 for many years and nothing comes close to the simplicity of push.
an alternative to Push is Novation Launchpad S, and for tweaking with knobs add the Novation Launch Control to your setup… in total they both add up to half the price of Push ! definitely worth considering
Still researching what would be best for me, but I have narrowed down what I want out of my controller. For me, I really want to be able to control live’s device parameters (compressors, EQ, Analog, etc.) with knobs as well as volume controls for individual tracks (preferably with sliders…but pushes knobs seem like they’d be adequate). It seems I really want a controller more for mixing than actual production, but again it looks like push can do both. I have been looking at the following:
Now I have been thinking a lot about the livid instruments controllers as I have heard nothing but good things about them, I’m just not a mapping expert so I feel like it might be a lot to learn
I guess it comes down to controlling device parameters and volumes by ear, and being able to quickly switch between devices with auto mapping the knobs (like mad zachs twister ableton script). without having to look at the screen all the time.
have you looked at the APC 40 at all? Push might keep your hands full trying to just mix with it as you’ll be swapping the map all the time making only certain things accessible at any given moment. Push really shines in production and when used with lives built in stuff.
APC 40 is an awesome controller and cheap as chips now since the Mk2 was announced, personally think the Mk1 was better laid out for performance (not a fan of the top row of knobs) and is very tight when it comes to Ableton parameters right out of the box.
I’m not much of a DJ yet but for my music production the Push was the best purchase I ever made. As you probably know it’s designed from the ground up to be able to compose and record a whole song without even looking at your computer screen or needing mouse/keyboard. It is focused way more on session view and doesn’t work as well out of the box in arrangement view, but both can be done. The best way I have found is to do a arrangement record and launch my clips and do automation on the Push while Ableton records my performance as an arrangement, then you can go in with mouse/keyboard to edit and tweak.
Someone mentioned 3rd party VST support, and while it isn’t the Push’s strong suit, it can be done. You just need to put the VST in an instrument rack, then assign the 8 macros to whatever parameters you want to control within the VST, then your 8 encoders on the Push will work. Or there is a setting somewhere where you can just have the first 128 (I believe) editable parameters auto populated into the VST’s instance in Ableton, so you can then scroll through and control any one of those 128 values with the encoders. So it does work, but not as seamlessly as it does with Ableton’s built in instruments/effects.
Great piece of hardware too.. I’m really impressed with the quality of it. Really solid feeling, the pads are great for both finger-drumming and keyboard style playing as well. Part of the reason I got it is that I can’t play keyboard very well, but with Push you don’t need to know any scales or chords, just dial in the key of the song and all the notes work.. it pretty much revolutionized my writing process.
