What is missing from Digital Djing?
Would love to hear your thoughts and comments!
Well I have elaborated on this a few times. Being a software developer by day I really miss the easy collaboration solutions I have there when it comes to MIDI mapping. All the available solutions leave a lot to be desired in flexibility (I have to fall back to bome MIDI translator .. and even that is limited in a lot of ways) and worse yet in ease of collaboration (how can I give Ean a fix for his mapping without me having to write him down instructions how to apply the fix one by one manually? .. its impossible right now with Traktor). I am also serious contraint in layout or how to interface solutions with other apps (like why on earth can Richie Hawtin’s Twitter “hack” generate so much buzz? simple .. because we are all jearning for this kind of flexibility .. yet Traktor constraints us .. even VirtualDJ is limited .. to exactly the things that they give you access to ..
The bottom line .. all proprietary software companies in the music business have a mind set of constraining their customers, killing a lot of potential for innovation at the edges. And what does NI do? They binary encode the MIDI mappings in 1.2, which kills off the chance at making it possible to write a TSI merge tool that Rainer wrote with 1.1 with a lot of blood sweat and tears. We are moving backeards!
Most of the innovation is done on the MIDI controller level .. and MIDI is a constraint and outdated protocol too .. 
We need to push these companies to open up. We need to flood them with feature requests, we need to applaud companies that do move forward (VirtualDJ), but remain critical. But we should also explore whats going on in the open source world. Many of us have already embraced Audacity. Its very capable of competing with many commercial tools, but more importantly it tries to enable and not constrain. I am hoping that Mixxx can soon take this role for digital DJing.
Honestly, everything that lsmith said is pretty much spot on to what I was going to say, just said infinitely better.
Competition is a necessity, of course, and proprietary information is required to hold onto a brand, but at the same time, it shouldn’t restrict the users as much as it does right now, especially being, I think, the first company to truly embrace the users with a real solid, compatible, easily used interface will probably blow everyone else out of the water.
Yeah even if NI or Serato or whoever didn’t want to release a developer kit, a really cool idea would be a scripting enviroment similar to Adobe’s or Maxscript for 3D Studio..
You could acheive a lot when mapping with just a few simple if-else statements. 8 built in modifiers is not enough..
Remove the illusion of scarcity.
If I want to add a breakbeat sample to a mix, I have to use the “deck” metaphor and set aside one of my four precious playback units to the sound, and if I want to add an effect that has to be be “routed” through a fixed and limited number of FX slots. Ableton Live shows how adding another sound source is essentially zero cost, as is associating it with an arbitrary chain of effects and controls.
There has to be a middle ground where you get the interactivity of a deck - playback, instant looping, instant cue drops, direct audible feedback on your controls, the direct touchability of a jog wheel, while allowing the virtualization that allows you to fire as many loops, samples, tracks and sound sources as you like. All of this without having to mentally map the end result you are looking for into the “4 decks” metaphor the program forces you to use. Looping and cue points easily selected, saved, recalled and manipulated in real time without having to map your desired end result into another “slots” scarcity metaphor.
That’s my goal - keep the good bits of the “deck” idea and extend it to the digital world of drop cue, bounce, jump, loop, lock, shuffle, nudge, hit and layer.
+1 Fatlimey .. I keep dreaming that this is what http://bitwig.com/ will create. They are a couple of ex-ableton developers ..
Wow. These are all amazing ideas. I agree with the idea of scarcity being an issue. Let us be free to mix/chop/sample/loop as many tracks as we want..not simply 4. In terms of Traktor: why are we limited to 4 decks? It seems this is an attempt to satiate those who are mixing 4 decks..but what about beyond? It seems they’ve developed a product that caps out where the norm does. How are we supposed to expand creatively when we are constricted to the status quo?
My answer to “what is missing”: Flexibility. Dynamic interfaces.
yeah i’m also eagerly awaiting a truly flexible digital dj software that takes the best of both worlds from traktor and ableton (or any daw software really) and combines them.
I love how Traktor offers the user different options for approaching the mixing process, like if the user wants to beatmatch manually or decides he wants to beatgrid/sync the option is there. It also has a feel very similar to analogue djing which is why in my opinion rivals Ableton for a dj software solution. What I don’t like about Traktor is how it’s constricted to a limited amount of decks, effects, routing options etc. etc.
Think about what the strengths of digital DAWs vs analogue DAWs are. It’s all about freedom and flexibility that makes digital DAWs more appealing. So it only makes sense that a digital dj software should strive for those strengths rather than trying to emulate the weaknesses/constrictions of the analogue world by setting unnecessary limits.
What about in the hardware department? What are you wishing a company would come out with already?
I’ve got some more ideas, but to geet the ball rolling…
Software:
- fully modular. I want to be able to manipulate the layout of my application (whether it be Traktor, Serato, Ableton) to display as I prefer
- multi-display support. Using Traktor as an example, I’d like to be able to isolate two decks to a monitor and the browser and effects to a third
Hardware:
- modular rears its head again. Vestax (I’m a fan; they produce tank equipment) to produce a single deck in a form-factor lying between the eKs XPS-10 and Stanton SCS.1d, as well as a four-channel MIDI (or 14-bit, or HID) mixer that these single decks plug in to. Have these decks available at two prices points, where one is motorised and one is not
- physical browsing. I miss being able to flick through my crate. Vestax (again) to produce a Rolodex-type piece of hardware that you can flick through to find the track you want
sad face
I’ve got some plans laid out (I won’t say schematics, as I haven’t looked at the internals yet), but my electronic engineering skills as just below average, and I’m lacking a workshop. Would love to hook up with a manufacturer to get some concepts going.
Honestly what I would like to have right now is a 4 deck midi controller with very good scratch like abbilities. I would like much more buttons and knobs than the vci 100 which I own now so mixing can be less preparing and more flow like. I would like an easy way to map my controller, proballly visually using simple statements that a non programmer can use easily.
I would like arcade responsive buttons and a controller that maps really really well to my software and can substitude for updates and changes within the software. Not to mention cheep and portable. Companies need to work together to achieve such a product and when this happens I believe the convenience techniques of digital DJ’ing will take over!
As far as I’m concerned, there’s only one thing missing from digital djing. And that’s soul. Or feeling. Or touch. Or whatever you want to call it. Basically, even though I prefer mixing on my vci-100 over using a dvs because of what I can do with it, I just wish it felt more satisfying. I’m getting over that a little now by doing manual beatmatching with the sliders and using the gain control as a fine tempo control (which actually works amazingly well) and that feels better, but it’s still not perfect, because it still involves looking at a computer screen from time to time, which imo distances me from my audience.
Hardware wise- A well designed fully customizable USB midi encoder/scanner. Something with around 128 analog inputs, 128 digital inputs, and 128 digital outputs. All put into a single usb based board, possible support for OSC. SUPER solid firmware(big problem with the existing options). With a setup program that allows full customization and control of CC, CM and NRPN signals for each input. As well as Macros setup. Even a possible GUI with a “Sketch Up” tool, so you can just assign the input/out pins to the control types on the unit, and have a pseudo graphic display of your controller where you can change each assignment/midi channel, like the Korg Kontrol Editor, where you setup the on screen layout to match your rig. All at a reasonable price $200-300.
I think this would take it all to the next level. After all, lots of us got into digital djing to get away from the restrictions of a traditional dj rig. And already we’re felling confined with the available options digitally.
What I want to see in a controller is something along the following lines:
Lots of nobs with an LED output to match where it is in relation to the software. The more the hardware informs us the less dependance we have on looking at the screen.
That means the software needs to allow that sort of flexibility to allow us to have each control element to be used infinitelty. Meaning: 6 nobs to control eq I want them to be able to control decks c and d without worrying about the actual physicalness of the nob itself. For example: if I use a nob to control deck a high eq and I turn it clockwise, switching to deck c should change the leds to reflect how deck is and when I go back to deck A the leds should change back. I dont like having to physically reset my controls.
Another big thing would be a small LCD screen that would show your crates your songs that you can browse through, that would almost negate the need to look at your laptop and focus on our jobs and entertaining the crowd.
Controllers that have excellent scratching would be great. For now my only option is to bring a vynil with good scratch tones and plug a table into a free channel and attempt scratching that way. Not very intuative.
hardware wise:
- something NON-exclusive. a controller that can map to anything that can read midi/hid messages.
- as stated a few times earlier (but i feel needs more emphasis), more features hardware-side. eliminate the smaller instances where looking at the screen is necessary, whether it be through leds, or even better:
----- an onboard LCD that displays a folder tree/files, waveform, bpm, pitch position, etc. this kind of thing on something like the vci-100 would be incredible. - the full switch to hid from midi.
edit:
meant to put this in the original, but forgot:
- a FULL eq/mixer section. i’m thinking specifically of the vci-100. it had a basic eq/mixer section that i would like to see expanded. just like in TPro: buttons for band kills, a dedicated “key” knob (not one that makes you use the “balance” knob). basically just beef up the mixer a little.
I want to see companies looking more deeply at what DJing is and build hardware around that idea. So much of what I see is driven purely from an engineering point of view. Tiny jog wheels with no feel, cheap faders, little to no midi feedback, etc. It’s like most companies are satisfied with just jumping on the me too MIDI bandwagon and are making totally derivative products. This helps no one. Companies from top to bottom are guilty of this, and users ultimately suffer for it.
I agree with the modular suggestion, but only in part. I agree that being able to customize a MIDI controller is a nice idea, but I think what we need are functional groups sold as larger modules. If you look at parts of a given DJ product, there are groupings that logically go together. Mixers have channel strips, platters have pitch faders, etc. The “Lego” approach to controllers sounds fine until you have to try and make that product work from an engineering and budget standpoint. Look at the Mawzer for a great example of this. It was in development for years, was released at a price point that is way above anything else out there, and was obsolete as soon as it was released (MIDI feedback? Any advanced messaging?). If you provide functional groupings, they can be offered at a lower cost while still giving the user flexibility in the configuration of their controller. The idea of a modular interface will play itself out in the touchscreen realm for sure, but I don’t see it happening on any kind of a wide scale for tactile controls - barring some new suitable technology.
I would also like to see DJ hardware manufacturers embrace more closely the idea of using displays on the controller surface. Right now, the company that most closely implements what I have in mind is Studer with their Vista series of audio consoles (the feature is called “Vistonics”). There are knobs mounted INTO the LCD, and the data around the knobs changes to reflect that those knobs are doing. But it’s not as simple as just updating a number. Let’s say that you put strip 7 into “dynamics” mode. Those knobs will have their color coding, names, and function change to reflect the fact that they’re now controlling compressor/limiter parameters. What’s more, if you reach up to adjust the threshold, the area around the knob (extending into other channel strips) changes to show a graphic representation of the adjustment (the display returns to it’s normal state when you take your hand off the knob). This gives you the ability to support feedback in a much more natural way, and turns the whole surface into a dynamic display that gives a user the data they need when they need it. As research into alternate display technology progresses (OLED, E-Ink, etc), this already existing technology will start becoming much more affordable.
As far as scratching goes, I think the hardware exists now to satisfy just about anyone. The biggest problem now is that software is far behind what the hardware can deliver. Once software catches up, I think we’ll see MIDI controllers offering solid platter performance.
i’d also like to hear Ean’s opinion on this matter
I think stuff like the SCS.1 is going in the right direction. Separate units, that still come together as a complete set if you choose to get it all. With the magnetic attaching you have compact transport, mix and match, yet it all fits together.
I also like the the fact that it gives a new interaction method and more importantly, that I can map it out very flexibly. The LED support is also top notch.
That being said, tough controllers are just part of the mix, real knobs and faders are not going away. So the APC40 has also brought its share newness or maybe just a well rounded package with the endless knobs with that little display around them, multi colored backlid etc.
But that also brings us to the supported protocol topic. I was talking to the Mixxx developers about adding OSC support. They said it would be trivial to add, but OSC doesnt really define much about what kind of data is transmitted, meaning that where MIDI defines clear ranges and types of controls, OSC leaves it all up to you. Meaning that its essentially a 100% scripting thing to get things to map to your software unless someone defines a DJ controller standard on top of OSC. This might be one of the reasons why OSC is not being adopted more quickly and we are left mostly with some apps/hardware here and there (TouchOSC, Monome) and few software supporting OSC. So in a way OSC is more or less the same as just working with HID (well not quite), but I am worried that hardware manufacturers are going to take the easy way out and invent proprietary protocols via HID with proprietary definitions of what data to send with MIDI as the “cheap” fallback.
I would be stoked to see a controller that has an LED screen that would display parts of Traktors GUI as I need it. Like if I could see my playlist in big fat bright letters on the controller for instance, it would remove the necessity to lean into my monitor to see what I’m doing… It just feels like whenever I have to grab the mouse and squint at my screen that it kind of stalls the momentum and energy until I finish and can get back to pumping my fist, tweaking knobs and generally connecting with the audience. Basically a controller that would accomodate not only deck and mixer/fx control but also browser/search control.
A little superficial of a request, but sometimes djing can be superficial! Image does matter to a certain extent- and at the very least it might help certain audiences warm up to the concept of digital djing.
here’s what would be perfect (to me):
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7096/slutkonceptmtt.jpg
(this is not real btw, just an artists rendition of what the new mk4 could look like)