Where to start with production? (for the newbie)

Performance & Techniques Music Production
21

I have the demo of Analog Lab Experience, and I’m frankly not the least bit impressed. It’s basically just a preset browser for the others, so I’ll look into downloading one of the actual demos, but everything just sounds like another VA plugin…except with less control. (yes, i know the full versions fix that part at least)

You mean the effects that all run in the guitar rig player? Sorry if I’m not impressed. What I’ve heard sounds okay for the price, but I end up just not using them because that’s such a horribly obtrusive way to work.

The more NI stuff I use, the less impressed I am with them.

Every time they have a sale on Komplete stuff, I download the Absynth and Massive demos and usually some other stuff. I finally bought the Solid series and Transient Master at some point specifically because I didn’t like Maschine’s bundled eqs and compressors and figured why not? Yeah…haven’t used them in 2 months. Waste of money. If I thought anyone would buy them, they’d be for sale.

I honestly think Komplete is a waste of money. Obviously, YMMV, but I’d rather pay more for stuff that I don’t hate working with even if it sounds about the same.

I’m not saying you’re wrong for you, I’m just saying that there’s more than one way to beat a dead horse and suggesting 2 grand worth of software to a beginner who has no idea how he likes to work is wrong on just about every level.

I couldn’t disagree more. But I’m a knob freak. I can’t get good sounds out of Absynth or Massive; I haven’t had luck with any of the free TAL stuff except really basic sounds that I already have samples of; I basically don’t use Logic’s synths unless I have to………and the only time I actually like working with them is when I record samples out of them and modulate/play them with Maschine’s sample player. (in all fairness, I’d probably do that with hardware too at this point, but I’d hate it less)

I hate soft synths.

2 new analog (less important than just being hardware) synths were released at NAMM, one by Arturia, one by Moog. And they’re affordable(ish). I already have a small pile of cash sitting in a corner of my room, and I fully plan to drop a gand on them some time this summer (after forcing myself to get good results out of the soft synths I have as a learning experience).

I might end up returning them and deciding that I just suck at programming synths, but given the experiences I’ve had with the virus and the radias (that sadly weren’t mine)…I doubt it.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly. And how they integrate with the way you think/create.

At this point, I’d rather have to record every part individually and have synths that just can’t do as much than look at a soft synth again. I think they all suck.

Which version of Ableton Live? If you have Live Suite, you don’t need other synths…certainly not to begin. Analog is pretty cool if you’re okay twisting knobs with a mouse, and everything else it comes with is about the same. Some of it sounds downright good.

Seriously…if you’re going to spring for Live Suite you won’t need anything else until you read too many press releases, decide you want to work a different way, or really learn what you’re doing.

I’ve only used 2 soft synths that I hated less than it seems in this post, and Analog was one of them. (The other was bundled with Pro Tools 7 LE…might have been called Hybrid).

22

That’s PLENTY. You don’t even need to get Sylenth. Analog in Abelton (the native synth) will get you really close. You also are likely to need some sample packs (I dig xFer from deadmau5 / Steve Duda)

As for cost of SA, yes, $165 is for a year. Sounds like your budget is tight – Just go for the silver membership first which is $55 for 3 months, and if you dig it, you can renew for $165 for another year. They are basically exactly the same.

23

u lads are talking a different language, there seems so much to learn!!

yeah funds are tight with college an living outta home!

where do u get them sample packs mate?

24

Well thanks – but I think it’s not nearly on the level of “Save Us.” :slight_smile:

Zero training except reading Future Music, Computer Music, Sonic Academy, and shitloads of time.

Yeah, SA has a whole section on learning Ableton, scales, chords, melody, rhythm – everything. If I had to do it over again, that’s where I would have started, and maybe left Computer Music.

Regarding software / plug-ins / hardware…mostapha speaks wisdom. DO NOT buy anything other than what you already have, maaaaaaybe Sylenth1 since it’s really popular and, in my opinion sounds great, but again, you can get very far with Analog in Ableton.

Ultimately, as mostapha said, it’s all about workflow and what “clicks” with your brain. For example, I have Maschine, and while I sorta kinda like it, and have produced a couple tracks with it, it’s very inflexible in certain ways and I always find myself going back to Ableton because I find myself getting things done much much faster and way less frustrated. Do some people LOVE Maschine? Absolutely. Is it right for me? No. (Hmmm, probably need to get that shit on eBay…)

Regarding analog vs. digital, it’s all about what will help you WRITE MUSIC. My brother is a producer and has a collection of analog synths. I borrowed one from him, a Minimoog. $2K synth, legendary. Sounds f’in amazing. Guess what? I spent an evening twiddling around with it, but I’m a shit keyboard player and I couldn’t get into the flow playing it / recording it. So it just collected dust. Sylenth, on the other hand – $200 and I’ve used it to death.

Anyway, the point is that it’s not about your software, your plug-ins, your hardware. It’s about just spending time honing your craft and developing a unique sound. Work on tracks for a year or so before you start spending money.

25

Great advice man, I shall take it on board and not spend another dime unless its on Sonic Academy! I was on their site by the way and there’s not many videos, is this because I ain’t a full member or somethin? it showed like 5/6 videos for beginners!

Is Massive a totally different DAW? and Massive works with Maschine right?! or do I have that wrong?

Another question, do I have to know stuff on music theory and play a keyboard? I know it would be an advantage but is it essential?

26

yup its live suite!

So analog is synth within Ableton?

stupid question but what is a soft synth?:confused::open_mouth:

27

Right – they only show a tiny fraction of the videos to non-members. Just enough to get you foaming at the mouth. :slight_smile:

Massive is a software synthesizer, a plug-in for your DAW.

Music theory - some, yes. Again, SA covers it all. Keyboard, not at all. I don’t. :slight_smile:

28

soft synth = software synthesizer.

They’re like hardware synths…but done in software. Without getting into digital signal processing and a lot of math that I really wish I didn’t know, that’s all there is to it. Read an introduction to synth programming and it’ll make more sense.

I liked this one: http://www.tweakheadz.com/programmer.html

Go through it with Analog in a MIDI channel in Live and have fun.

29

Analog Experience is not what the V Collection is all about. That’s a bad example of what Arturia has to offer.

We’ve had a real Arp 2600 in the studio and brought up the Arturia’s emulation and you could not tell the difference. We dialed in different settings and tried to get them as close as possible and it was spot on.

As for the NI stuff, those are all FM synths vs your classic subtractive synths. It really is a different way of thinking when it comes to learning how to program them but I think there are far more possibilities with FM for sound design than there is with subtractive.

And when I said there’s more to Ultimate, I sure was well wasn’t talking about Guitar Rig. I was talking about all their sample libraries. You get all these world class sounding libraries at once for a fraction of the cost to buy them separate. Plus the interface for each and what you can with them performance wise (live or recording in the studio) is brilliant and well done. Plus there’s ALWAYS going to be new content so it’s an investment that can and will grow over time.

You can hate soft synths all you want, but the pro’s far out weigh the cons when it comes to soft vs hard synths.

And from what we seen and heard, the Minibrute isn’t going to be that good of a synth. We had a few guys at NAMM and they were very disappointed, there’s a reason it’s so cheap.

As for the Minitaur, they said that’s the real deal. It doesn’t do much per se, but it’s phucking awesome at what it does do and it just oozes quality and care.

30

Damn. My grand this summer might very well be a minitaur and a used virus C. Oh well, I’ll enjoy that more anyway. And if they suck, GC will be selling them on closeout in a year or so.

I’ll give you their sample libraries. They’re kinda cool. I haven’t had that much experience with them (other than the ones for Maschine) because I’m honestly not that interested. But they’re not the only ones who make them. Based on product demos, I’m not convinced that Omnisphere might not be better bang for your buck if you’re going the software route.

Maybe I should give Massive/Absynth/FM8 another try, but they’re probably just going to end up wasting hard drive space. I’m at the point where either I’m going to buy a BCR2000 and dedicate it to a particular soft synth or start saving up for hardware.

Or preying that someone releases something like Maschine for synthesizers……I could totally get down with just about any of NI’s synths if they had a module about the size/form factor of a Virus Desktop that did nothing other than control the plugins.

31

Can’t go wrong with the Minitaur IMO, it’s a solid investment that will hold its value.

Seems like your issue isn’t that you hate soft synths, just the user interface per se. That I can not disagree with. That is the only advantage hardware has over software in my opinion. And if that’s the case, invest in a SL Remote Zero MKII and make a template in Ableton (or whatever DAW you use) with each of your fav soft synths set up on a different midi channel for the Remote Zero.

32

It does look like a really awesome little synth. The Microbrute is even a bit more appealing to me–assuming it doesn’t sound like complete garbage–because it has more oscillators and an arpeggiator. The Moog mostly appeals to me just because it’s a moog.

What did your friends complain about on the minibrute? And was it a prototype or a production model?

33

They all agreed that it sounds like a cheep synth, period. And these are guys who have owned practically every synth ever made since the 80’s till today. But for everything it’s offering to do but to have such a low price point just doesn’t add up so they weren’t surprised after hearing.

But the one thing they all were excited about was the MacBeth Vortex. They said that it sounds awesome and has a killer price point for what it does.

But another thing to keep an eye for is the modular stuff. This could be the breakout year for modular we’re all thinking, and it makes sense.

After your initial purchase into the world of modular (something like the Doepfer A100 or the just announced Pittsburgh Modular, Foundation) it’s a lot easier to spend 100 to 300 every other month to add on new pieces and build upon your set up than it is to save up and spend 700+ for a brand new synth every time.

In my opinion this might be the way for you to go it sounds like. Think you would really appreciate it and enjoy the endless possibilities that accompany it.

34

I might look into the pittsburgh stuff eventually, but for that kind of money, I could probably find a used Virus TI.

FWIW, I downloaded the demo of FM8 and am slightly more impressed than last time.

Edit: apparently there’s a lot of excitement about the minibrute on GS…guess we’ll have to wait and see. I’m pretty sure I’m going to go hardware this summer…at least for synths. Either a minibrute or a minitaur would complement one of the classic VAs (Nord Lead 2, Virus C/TI, MS-2000B/Radias, etc.). Though, I really wish they’d announced it with a rack version.

35

I’m sure there will be a rack kit you can buy for it

36

Didn’t want to open a new thread so I’m gonna ask here:

What’s the best entry-level midi keyboard that gonna help me get through my noob level? Right now I’m using Ableton possibly Logic in the future. My budget is around 150€-200€ (200$-265$)

37

Go to a store and try one. If you actually play piano, you’ll hate how the vast majority of them feel.

IMO, there’s not a huge difference apart from whether it does aftertouch, whether it has knobs/faders, and whether it has pads.

And I’ve never used an M-Audio product that I’ve liked…and even with that Axioms and Axiom Pros still seem decent.

38

Thanks for the input. I was thinking Novation 25 SL MkII but it exceeds my budget