So I’m looking to producing my own house music. For the longest time, I’ve produced hip-hop using a hybrid set up of FL Studio and ACID Pro. But the versions I have are pretty dated so I’m looking to either update FL Studio, or maybe try something else.
So far, Ableton and Maschine seem to be the front-runners. But for anyone here who has experience with both, can you summarize what each system is better catered to? The tactile immediacy of Maschine seems to jump out at me, but is it at all limited as far as production goes, as I imagine it’s sacrificing something to be a production/performance hybrid?
What makes Ableton the industry-standard (or it at least seems like it is) for dance music?
And of course, I plan on downloading the demos to try them out myself, but I’m at work right now and I figured I would pick you guys’ brains in the meantime.
I would wait for Push to be released before and have some proper reviews before buying Maschine. I Ableton+Maschine as well. The hands on experience is pretty good to get you in the workflow and by having Maschine loaded inside Ableton and routed accordingly you have the best of both worlds.
tbh, there really isn’t a specific DAW for types of music. The only thing DAW’s do is change your workflow and how you go about creating the song. The reason why Ableton is the industry standard, is controllers. Without controllers, you’re gonna have a real bad time using it. Also, ableton is usually used more for live performances among producers. There’s quite a few that just use FL, Logic, Reason, Cubase, etc… If you like to perform your music though, Ableton is the way to go. If you like clicking in midi notes and such, ableton CAN do that, but it’s a rather annoying process. It’s the little things that make a difference in being comfortable while making music.
A lot of good stuff here. So because I don’t have a grand laying around lol, would it make sense to start with Ableton and learn that inside and out, and then, if it comes to it, add Maschine (or potentially Push) later on?
You know its really not, from most of the videos i’ve seen of top house producers almost every single one of them uses Logic it seems. Which makes sense because its so much more intuitive to use imo.
With very few caveats, it’s not the DAW that makes the music. Some are better than others at specific things, some lack specific things…but you can do it with just about any of them.
The only way to make the right decision is to just try them. Work through some tutorials (during trial periods) and make some music…move on to the next one……and go back at some point. Something will jive with the way you think…it won’t be completely fluid until you really learn something, but that will give you a lot better of an idea what working with them is like than a bunch of people probably recommending what they use or what they want to use.
Failing that, watch a lot of tutorial videos (avoid review videos). And pick what seems to make the most sense.
Ableton is popular because it’s somewhat groove/clip based, so it’s easier to sketch in than a lot of others, it’s fairly straightforward, and it gets a lot of more technical things right. Also, its MIDI effects are the best and most straightforward I’ve seen. But that doesn’t necessarily make it the best tool.
IMvhO:
Maschine has the most groovebox-like interface.
Pro Tools is the best all-around for editing and mixing audio, and it can do everything else, though some of it is convoluted.
Logic is probably the most cost-effective (if you own a mac or have the hardware for a hackintosh) but parts of it are convoluted.
Reason has a very interesting interface and the best meters I’ve seen, but its sequencer is god-awful.
Cubase/Studio One/Nuendo are just weird interfaces that I never got the hang of.
Ableton might be the most straight-forward, but it does a few things differently from everything else.
Trackers like Renoise are very interesting…and they’re really fast if you know where you want to go and are very familiar with them…but they’re weird for experimentation and they just don’t have as much thought put into how you interact with different parts of it.
I’ve been using Maschine + Pro Tools for a while, and I really enjoy it. But the Push has me considering a switch. It seems like it would get past some of Maschine’s shortcomings as well as some of the stuff NI likes to do that I really don’t like (like level meters that either don’t exist or don’t mean anything), but I’d still route the audio it into Pro Tools because I just like it better for mixing than anything else I’ve tried.
So, you have a bunch of controllers, yet, you never played a part of any song you’ve created using them? That’s a first.
controllers which allow LIVE PERFORMANCE. Try doing live performances with FL Studio before FL they introduced performance mode.
He is asking about music. And if you aren’t going to be using controllers, using other DAW’s are a lot better (like you said before about using ill-suited equipment). Why do you think Ableton comes out with bundles of controllers? Even they know this.
You can warp in ANY DAW. It’s just called differently. They all have differences in how it’s done. Therefore the “little things”.
Most of the things you’ve stated here are you disagreeing, but then saying the same thing.
That’s not entirely true. It does make more concessions so that you can use it more fluidly live. Dummy clips that don’t contain audio but contain information to control plugins has been used in live FOH contexts by–among others–Depeche Mode IIRC. And I’ve used it live (at house parties and random weeknights) to host guitar amp modelling plugins and effects…so that it essentially becomes a very controllable pedalboard…mostly because I’m not a good enough guitarist to spend that much money on pedals (or the amps that I have pretty decent models for).
And you absolutely can record country on it. Just turn off warping and plug in a big enough audio interface. You’ll probably never use session view, but it can still do it just fine.
Also, it integrates just fine with Pro Tools. Live can act as a ReWire slave, and PT can act as a master. So sending audio between them (as well as tempo and transport control) is about as fluid as it is with the Maschine RTAS/AAX plugins…and it can do more channels.
Based on what I’ve seen, I think Live+Push is probably a better overall product than Maschine, even if you’re running it into another DAW for recording/editing/mixing…but it also costs a lot more. And its advantages are probably lost on anyone who just wants an MPC replacement.
I started with FL + Acid then moved onto an Acid + Cubase setup.
I’ve used Pro Tools before, but Cubase is till my favourite DAW. It is VERY involved and can do quite a bit. Audio editing on Pro Tools I find is better, but supposedly the latest Cubase version has come a long way from what it was before. As for MIDI/VSTs Cubase is great. As I don’t have either of my preferred DAWs right now I’m been contemplating spending the $$$ to get the latest Cubase or going with Logic Pro.
Now, Maschine…to me is really quite amazing. IT does take a bit of getting used to but I find workflow wise it’s great. I’m not staring at a comp screen, and mousing around clicking things. When hosted in something like Pro Tools or Cubase it definitely has the potential to be the centre of your set up. Right now I’m working solely in Maschine. It makes for a logical replacement to FL and Acid. You’ve got patterns and VST capabilities of FL and the chopping sampling of Acid.
I’ve been looking at a lot of the tutorials and I’m currently leaning toward Ableton, and with Push coming out soon, that sweetens the deal even more. Still playing with demos, though.
But I have a quick technical question… I currently have Traktor Pro with an S2. No matter what DAW I end up going with, can I leverage the S2’s internal sound card when using my DAW? Or would it make sense to get a separate one? And if I can use the S2’s sound card, does that mean Traktor Pro would have to be running to use it? Or as long as the S2 is on and connected, my computer (Macbook, FYI) will recognize it?
@BiggChev: Yeah, I’ve found that lately I’m a big fan of a streamlined workflow and being able to pick something up and just start laying out ideas is a big plus in my book. That’s why the Maschine/Push type of setting I think will work for me.
Q elmgroove: yeah man, you’ve got to find something you like. I personally did not like Ableton when using the 30 day trial. It could be I’m just set in my stubborn ways. That being said, stick with what you like. Even being a Maschine guy, the Push/Ableton combo looks pretty sweet. Also, being a piano player, I’d rather just MIDI out my Maschine to small key controller. I still can’t used to playing melodies on pads. I will say however, they seemed to put a lot of thought into Push with respect to that.
I vote Ableton + maschine hands down, The work flow on this setup up is great, if your using Maschine as a controller for live. Both products have such a huge community surrounding them it was an easy choice for me. I find that these communities are great support networks for when you run into speed bumps, though Im not as firmiliar with FL , Logic, Protools… Ableton has incredible Midi mapping capabilitys I just found it to be the most fun to use, I also really enjoy the concept of performace view vs arrangement view.
