Which DAW?

Performance & Techniques Music Production
1

Which DAW?

So I’ve been into beat production for some time now, using mostly and emx1, I’ve used some sequencers and have messed around in FL a bit. But now I’m looking to step up a little bit and get either maschine or the new mikro, but what I’m really wondering is what DAW would compliment it best? Testimonials or anything of the sort would be helpful. As I am purchasing the daw, please dont tell me to just try them out until I find one that fits best. Just looking for some quality advice.

Thanks in advance!

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Logic. Ableton Live. New Reason. Cubase. FL is pretty good nowadays, too. Oh and Pro Tools, too.

3

Since you have a dell Logic isn’t an option. I would say that if you don’t own any vst’s Reason is going to have more variety in the box versus just Ableton Live. That being said, the instruments you do get with just Live are quality and able to produce a variety of sounds. For a first DAW I would recommend Live, especially with the session view which makes programming your own loops really easy and offers a more “free flow” workflow. Pro Tools and Cubase can’t really comment on since I’ve never tried either.

4

Cubase is deff out. I’ve used it before and I hate the interface. I’ve toyed with Live so that would be easier to start with. However would I find myself looking to move to Reason in the near future? Or will Live suit my needs for some sustainable future?

5

Reason and Live are excellent pieces of software. FL isn’t bad, and if you liked the demo (which you should have downloaded for all of these if you’re intending to purchase one), it’s a good start. Most DAW’s offer a lot of power and creativity once you get intimate enough with it, but the workflow is what’s going to be your biggest concern.

6

Another vote for Ableton live.

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Not to take anything away from Reason, but I find it more of a distraction with constructing and routing my own racks rather than doing anything constructive. I don’t see any reason you would move away from Live especially now that 8 is way more stable than the initial few releases. Plus, you’re on windows so they’re plenty of free vst’s to try out and find a few you would like.

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Ableton Live is a mightly good DAW and I’ve used it since 2.1 days but my biggest gripe – and the reason I switch to Logic from time to time – is the lack of comp takes.

Comp takes mean that I could set a let’s say 8-bar loop and improvise line after line and then pick pieces I want for the final production. The MIDI region comp takes don’t work as well as the audio ones but are still useable. Anyway, then I could just take the eight or four bar take, copy it multiple times, switch between the takes to make it more human or select one of the takes I liked more. Perfect for bass line improvising, different hihat patterns, multiple takes on pads and leads and so on.

If anyone knows how to do that quickly in Ableton Live, let me know. Been studying the 8.x manuals on my iPad from/to work and I have not yet found a nice workaround to do this. Which is sad as clips would be perfect for this if I could record clip after clip with a four-bar range.

The lack of more MIDI editing tools in Ableton Live is another story but just now I could live with the ones that are inside Ableton Live. But let’s say narrow the range of velocities to a range of 90-110 which has tools in Logic, can’t find that in Ableton Live either.

The other reason I used Ableton Live quite a lot before was the elastic loop support, now in Logic with flex time there’s less need to use Live. I think most DAWs now have elastic time support in one flavor or another. Live is still wicked fast when assembling pieces together for a final product.

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This may or may not answer your question…

I think you want loop recording?

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^this

or use the sesion view with a pedal that starts recording the next clip.

Regarding velocity issue:

I’m a happy Ableton user :slight_smile: You can try a fully working version for 30 days, just download it fron Abe’s site. I’d say demo it before buying it.

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i vote for ableton and cubase 6

i prefer ableton when doing midi based stuff but for live band recordings (which i do have to deal with a lot of times) i much prefer cubase

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Summary:

Tier 1: Logic (best with midi), Pro Tools (more compatible with pro studios)
Tier 2: Ableton Live (only workflow like it), Reason+Record (simplest, also most limited)
Tier 3: Basically everything else

IMHO,

Logic(mac-only) and Pro Tools are the cream of the crop. The differences are very small workflow things. I used to prefer Pro Tools, now I prefer Logic. Moving between them isn’t a huge issue. And I do miss one of the RTAS-only synths that came with Pro Tools LE 7.

If you’re working with professional recording studios, either get Pro Tools or learn–very well–how to bounce everything to individual Audio tracks and get exactly what you want.

A lot of people like Ableton Live for EDM…and I think they’re nutz. But that’s a preference thing. I loved Ableton for DJing, and it’s great for Live shows if you’re not using hardware. But for actual production, I think it has a lot of limitations, and it takes me forever to do anything.

A lot of that is that I like Logic’s Score Editor better than any piano roll (I actually read and write musical notation…piano rolls look stupid to me), I like Logic’s step sequencer better than the half-assed one Live has, and Logic’s environment is insanely powerful once you get your head around it. I like Pro Tools mostly because it’s comfortable if your’e working entirely with Audio (it’s a bit more kludgy with MIDI) and because I’ve done work in a studio with an HD3 system and an ICON desk that I didn’t have to pay for. But, I’ve actually paid for Logic and not Pro Tools.

I also think that working with Audio in Live is a bit weird…but I learned that side of things in Pro Tools, often working on non-EDM without a grid, so that probably explains it. Logic and Pro Tools both have time-stretching features that are just simpler for live recordings than Live’s Warping is.

Ableton also doesn’t understand the protocols used by a lot of the controller-desks (ICON, SSL, Euphonix, etc)…which means that it’s hard to grow with it. But, not many people use those unless they’re doing big mixdowns.

Alternatives are obvious things like Cubase, Reason+Record, Sonar (pc-only), Nuendo, FLStudio (pc-only), and like a bajillion others.

If you’re on a Mac, I think the choice comes down to Logic, Pro Tools, or Ableton…based on which workflow you like best.

If you’re on a PC, I think the choice comes down to Pro Tools or Ableton…based on which workflow you like best.

And the only way to really decide is to either try them or just pick one based on screenshots and tutorial videos…which actually works pretty well IMHO.

And if you have absolutely no idea but have friends…just get whatever they use. Also…the skills you learn on one will often transfer to the others…it’s just a matter of figuring out the workflows.

Oh yeah, and Logic Express is probably the most cost-effective answer if you’re already on a Mac. All you lose is Mainstage (which sucks compared to Ableton Live for live performances, IMHO) some stuff that very few people will ever use, and their convolution reverb and delay plugins…the price difference is worth it for those 2 plugins alone for reasons you’ll understand if you know what a convolution reverb is…but they’re not essential by any stretch of the imagination.

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Oh, thx for pointing out that article. I had a vague memory about where I read about similar comp sweep takes but I thought it was the documentation.

Well, loop recording is OK but compared with Logic’s Comp/sweep takes, the ‘sweep’ part is missing. To be fair, the MIDI sweeps don’t work properly in Logic, only audio. But having the option to record one single region (or clip) and copy this around and just select one of the multiple takes is so handy in my workflow. I.e. I don’t need to duplicate multiple tracks. The loop recording might do it but then I need to go in and change the loop points for each track. But it’s good enough just now.

Time to file another feature request to Ableton engineering. It would be very natural them to have the feature of recording ‘nested clips’ and just select the one you want at a specific instance. In addition if they add the ‘sweep’ feature from Logic it would be even more powerful.

As for the velocity plug-in, it’s nice but it operates as a plug-in across all the incoming MIDI info. It’s pretty common in my workflow to fix a drum MIDI recording with multiple instruments and adjust just the kick velocities. This means that I need to extract the kick MIDI into a separate clip and duplicate tracks for using the same drum plug-in. Again doable. I guess I could go in and edit the velocity values for each specific midi note inside the clip editing view.

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Anyway, as many have posted, the work-flow is the interesting part with most DAWs. If you find one you like concerning work-flows – and most of them have equal features – that’s the one you should use. It means you need to do some homework and try them out. I know the original poster didn’t want to test DAWs but frankly speaking it’s hard for us to predict how you are going to use a DAW. I think every producer have their own favorite way of creating music. And that’s how it is.

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mostapha thanks for the amazing post. I am on a pc though.

@ksandvik I’m not against trying them (ie demo) but I have seen other people ask and they are met with the generic “just try them and find one you like” answer. I was hoping to find out some key differences between DAWs and go from there.

I’ve ruled Reason out as I hate the workflow. Cubase has been out because it really doesn’t fit my intended use. I’m currently using Live on the free demo and after watching some tut’s like the workflow a lot more than I used to when I first tried it (maybe because I picked up a lpk25?? haha). I will give pro tools a good look as well now as I haven’t even considered it yet. I’m not currently to interested in using it as a live performance device, but I guess it’s nice to have options in the future.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback! :slight_smile:

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ableton

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Just for fun I tested Reason 5.0 the demo version (I have a 3.0 copy somewhere in my book shelf but didn’t bother installing it.) Boy the MIDI editing and work flow is clunky after years of using Logic and Ableton Live.

Anyway, I do think it’s important to try yourself DAWs, I could have claimed that Reason is the best DAW ever and you could have purchased it based on such a claim without testing it. The opposite is also true, might be that Reason is exactly what someone wants to use.

I don’t see any limits of music making with any commercial DAW available today. It’s mostly to spend 100+ hours in the studio to learn the tools for becoming productive.

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I vote fl studio, most simple user interface ive ever used doesnt take any messing to get setup, included vst’s and effects are amazing, and able to get working off the bat.

as far as recording and editing goes I like samplitude music studio for some reason its not the obvious choice but has everything I need

19

Pro Tools is weird. I really really like it, but it takes some time to get used to. A lot of the specifics are very different from Ableton.

The biggest concern for “new” guys is that it doesn’t use VST instruments or effects. Avid has their own format, called RTAS, that they use for some reason. It’s probably technically better in some specific way that they like to brag about that doesn’t really matter.

So, if you’re actually buying synths and effects, just about anything professional will come as an RTAS (along with AU and VST), but it’s worth making sure. If you’re looking to get free stuff…a lot of places don’t like giving away RTAS versions of their plugins, so they’re hard to find. fxpansion.com (or something like that) makes a VST to RTAS wrapper that theoretically lets you use VSTs in Pro Tools, but I haven’t used it. Also, it costs like $100.

On a PC, I think Ableton and Pro Tools are your best bet…most people in the EDM world prefer Ableton. Most people in the professional world seem to prefer Pro Tools. Unfortunately, I’m not aware of a good way to try out PT other than to just buy it, and it ain’t cheap.