I was wondering why is it that most clubs have Pioneer dj gear as standard? What is it that sets them apart? Native Instruments are a giant of the music production scene and probably the best in terms of the quality of software and hardware they provide and likewise their dj gear is one of if not the best so I am a bit puzzled as to why their Traktor software and hardware aren’t standard in any clubs? From what I understand you can be more creative and do more things with the Traktor gear than you can with Pioneer gear so do they not deserve to have more of their gear in clubs? The Traktor S8 is Traktor’s flagship controller and yet it’s realistically too big to carry around to gigs and even then there is usually not enough room for it in the booth so what is the point of buying an S8? The way Pioneer monopolise everything it seems a waste of time buying Traktor gear if your goal is to regularly play in big clubs as the all have Pioneer gear so if you wanted to use Traktor it would have to be te not so good S4 or S5 and it would just be hassle having to carry them to every gig and set them up.
They made the best CD players for quite a while so it’s only natural to use it’s mixer too since they’ll most likely get better pricing for the bundle and it will look more uniform.
Traktor requires you to use a laptop and it’s much more convenient to just show up with a USB stick and headphones to a gig, specially if you are touring.
Most headlining Pioneer kit is Traktor and Serato compatible too so you can still use your software of choice while using the venue’s gear so if you were to fit a booth with something like a S8 you’d still have to keep CDJs/turntables around (no effects unless you use a computer so another cons there) but also another Serato capable rig. You can still carry a S4/S5 to a gig our if you find them too hard to fit get a pair of D2s and use the venue’s mixer, most Pioneer ones have a built in audio interface so you basically get a S8 with extra effects that way and setup is just plugging 3 USB cables.
Denon is aiming at changing the paradigm with their new “controllerist friendly” players that cater better people who started with software or are simply used to all the extras it offer but don’t expect a sudden major change since a ton of clubs bought NXS2 recently.
Long story short, being the standard doesn’t necessarily mean the best, just what is most convenient for a larger chunk of the community. Don’t forget most people are fine with doing a 2 deck and minimal effect set without all the extra bells & whistles, nothing wrong with that either.
The DJM 500 set the scene a long time ago, then the DJM series … the rest is history. I have seen DJM 500s covered in beer back in the days when smoking at da club was cool…
Djs riding the faders and pots… everything still working like a gem.
I don’t think taking a laptop to a club is an issue as these days many djs take laptops with them when they are travelling so that they can produce music in the airport or hotel.
Although you can use the Traktor software via the Pioneer CDJs, the problem with that is you don’t have the same level of control over all of Traktor’s features like you would with the S8. For clubs that just play trance, techno and house, the booths could just have the Traktor Kontrol S8 only without the need for anything else. Some clubs that play other music where a large platter is needed then yes the pioneers would be best. I think the best solution would be to have the S8 as the standard and then there should be a new product made which is essentially just a quality large platter which can be plugged into the S8. The platter wouldn’t have any other features on it so it could be a lot smaller and more portable than current cdj’s.
For the time being if you want to be as creative as possible then like you said the best solution is to carry two Kontrol D2’s and a laptop to gigs.
So here’s some issues with your proposed setup of “S8 only”:
There’s exactly one USB input on the S8, so if you have any sort of switch between DJs, which will very likely necessitate the switch of laptops, you’re going to have a lull in the room which is not really something you want to happen.
There’s no real backup policy. What if a laptop crashes? You’re kind of screwed right? With CDJs, if your laptop crashed while using the CDJs as HID controllers, you can use USBs. Even CDJ2000s can us CDs still, so there’s another level of backup added on.
This assumes everyone uses Traktor, knows how, and understands the workflow of an S8. Granted you could make the same argument of Rekordbox and what not, but even CDJs allow you to just go for it and reject using a software if you wish.
Actually it’s really easy to switch laptops with no lull in music. For example you can have your smart phone plugged into the S8 and the smart phone has Traktor installed on it. You can play a track from via your phone whilst switching laptops. Check out videos on youtube about this. This would also solve the problem of the laptop crashing. Yes happydan you can use the S8 as a mixer only.
i dont like traktor nor do i like the NI mixers very much. and if you think im going from serato to rekordbox and now to traktor youre TERRIBLY mistaken…
Yeah shout out to that. I totally blanked on that asset of it because I am a dumb boy.
Sure but it wouldn’t quite nearly be as seamless as even having CDJs plugged into the S8. And I know I’m just being nitpicky at schematics here, but I just can’t see why an S8 would be the way to go over a mixer plus CDJs or turntables.
The DJM 500 set the scene a long time ago, then the DJM series … the rest is history. I have seen DJM 500s covered in beer back in the days when smoking at da club was cool…
Djs riding the faders and pots… everything still working like a gem.[/QUOTE]
Quality ? The 500 was a absolutely horrible sounding mixer compared to the competition, the only reason it gained massive traction was the (quickly abused) onboard beat effects, which no other professional club mixer had and their massive discounts for club installations.
Most “industry standard” mixers at that time could handle at least a pint of two thrown over them every other week (Rane, Formula Sound, Citronic)
In saying that the CDJ’s 500-S (CDJ-700 in the USA) were an absolute milestone and most clubs replaced their old (pretty unreliable) Denon Rackmount players with them very fast.
No other manufacturer caught up for quite a few years and by that time they had made their name as a brand to be relied on in a club environment and a true alternative for vinyl DJ’s.
Yes there are other options when it comes to CDJ’s, but Pioneer were the “Pioneers” when it came to CD Turntables and after 4 or 5 years DJ’s were comfortable with the reliability, layout and functions of the CDJ - these have expanded on, but if you played on a CDJ500 back in 1999, you can pretty much walk up to a CDJ2000 and knock out a decent set with no problems.
Clubs want minimal fuss, as do DJ’s. A set of CDJ’s and USB key will do exactly the same thing for 90% of working djs’ as a controller / laptop setup and its completely interchangeable with every DJ from anywhere and no grief with changeovers.
I genuinely could not see any NI controllers or mixers surviving the abuse of DJ box permanently for very long. When DJ’s are playing on their own equipment they tend to treat it with a little more respect than the house equipment.
With the S8 you can be more creative and it opens up more possibilities for the dj to perform things live than you could using the Pioneer gear. So it makes sense to have the S8 as the standard as you can do more with it so why have other equipment as standard when it limits you in what you can do. Sure you can have the Pioneer as standard and then bring your own NI gear to plug in but what’s the point when you can just have the NI gear there from the start.
But then again i suppose it depends on demand. Maybe the majority of dj’s prefer to just mix two tracks together with minimal use of effects and live performance. It would be interesting if a survey was done to see actually how many people would prefer to see the S8 as standard and who prefers the Pioneer.
Pioneer has built it’s entire marketing and development around the term “Club Standard.” Once the CDJ1000 (MK1) came out in 2001, we also saw the popularity of digital music aquisition hit a peak at the same time. This helped drive sales in a market which was still dominated by the turntable.
As we progressed further into the digital music age, Pioneer continued to improve their players. At the same time, they began teaming up with companies that focus solely on club installs. This put the CDJ in front of everyone who played any mainstream club or event.
It’s not that they are better than anything else out there, it’s that they are already there and the name is known. Brand recognition plays a huge role in marketing. You can walk up to any bloke on the street and they will recognize Pioneer as an audio electronics company.
Now ask that same person about Denon, Stanton, Numark, etcetera.
NI knows that they will never be the club standard. It’s the only real explanation why we have never seen a standalone player from a company that really does make top notch gear. Ive gone through 1 djm850, 2 djm800’s, 2 djm600’s, 1 djm400, and 1 djm500 over the past 17 years. My vestax PMC270a (which turned 16 this year and is hanging on my wall) still plays like new (aside from two replacement input faders). My technics 1200s still played like new when I boxed them and put em in storage last month, and they are from who knows what year in the early 90’s.
But to that same argument, my CDJ1000 MK2’s still play like brand new as well. They’ve been through everything from DJ Swamp blowing fire directly at one of em (melting one of the covers lol) to being dropped 15 feet off of a stage onto concrete.
We will see how NI gear stands the test of time, but I can say from experience that I have put each piece of NI gear I own through hell and back.
Just speaking of pioneer I recently purchase a home stereo amplifier from a thrift store for $30, picked it up because it really has some weight to it, (heavy parts usually means heavy performance), anyways I looked it up and its dolby digital 5.1 140watts per channel, hooked it up to my 600 watt 15" subwoofers and it pounds them out hardcore, pioneer just rocks at sound stuff!
Certain other manufacturers in the late 90s early 2000s being afflicted by the Great Capacitor Plague while Pioneer DJ was not. Same reason Gateway disappeared and Dell became big.
And their stuff was decent enough and not too complicated.
Pioneer has just been on top of it for yearsssssssss, they were the first to bat & stayed strong. Denon had a strong chance back in the day with their dual deck CD players, but after the CDJs came out that’s long gone. I too wish there would be more variety in the “standard” gear, but people don’t want to change too much. Even the Allen & Heath Xone 92 took a long time before it was considered standard, that one came in the early 2000’s & took about 10 yrs before it was more visible
