Ill Gates not very happy with Pioneer

Ill Gates not very happy with Pioneer

this is what he said in an open letter to Pioneer

Dear Pioneer,

You won. You became the ‘industry standard’ brand. There is no escape. Congratulations.

As the ‘industry standard’ brand DJs around the world (myself included) are more or less forced to rely on the stability of your equipment every time they take the stage. Yes, we can bring our own sound cards, controllers, etc. but space in DJ booths is extremely limited and your brand dominates the space. Getting even a laptop in there can be a challenge, let alone a MIDI controller, Serato box, USB hub and whatever else is required to take our performance beyond the ‘push play’ cliché.

So we DJs adapted. We sucked it up. We sold our controllers. Many of us switched from Ableton and tried to adapt. Personally: I moved to using a hybrid Ableton / Serato / MixEmergency setup in order to provide an audio / video set with finger drumming and camera feeds. It wasn’t optimal, but it worked. For a while.

…UNTIL YOU THREW US SERATO USERS UNDER THE BUS.

Ever since OS X El Capitan you have been blaming Apple for shortcomings of your Serato side. I’ve been going back and forth with your “tech support” team for months. I’ve done everything you asked. I did all of the updates. I installed, uninstalled, and reinstalled every driver you asked me to. I learned to bring a network cable with me so I could update the firmware before every performance. I even REPLACED AN ENTIRE MACBOOK at my own expense when your “tech support” team blamed imaginary Apple hardware defects.

NONE OF IT WORKED.

Your “tech support” team has been blaming Serato, Apple, USB hubs, anyone but Pioneer. It has been MONTHS.

Today I finally sucked it up AGAIN. CDJs and the 900NXS do not work for Serato, so I put my setup up for sale and ordered a DDJ-SR controller despite the fact that it is too large to bring as normal carry on luggage and I will have to argue with flight attendants on every single flight from now on.

Then I go online and find an announcement for Serato users saying NOT to update to OSX 10.11.4 or it will break the ENTIRE PIONEER LINE!

It has been MANY versions of OSX since El Capitan first came out. There is no excuse. Serato works GREAT with El Capitan unless you use Pioneer equipment. Native Instruments gear works GREAT with El Capitan. Even mom and pop plugins work fine! The only thing that doesn’t work is the combination of Pioneer and Serato!

I WONDER WHY?

I can only assume at this point that Pioneer is trying to pressure Serato users into switching to Rekordbox!

What was with that 900-SRT mixer that cost so much more than the normal 900-NXS? Then all of a sudden the 900-NXS supports Serato? Too bad for any Serato users who bought the SRT model! Sucks to be them! Should have used Rekordbox.

Now the new 900-NXS2 model starts showing up in my DJ booth despite the fact that it’s not on my rider. The promoters figured it was newer, so it had to be better than the normal 900-NXS right? NOPE! No Serato support AT ALL! Sucks to be me, should have used Rekordbox.

And what is with the XDJ-RX ‘all in one’ controller? Seems like an excellent, space saving solution for venues around the world… except it doesn’t support Serato and never will! Sucks to be you! Should have used Rekordbox!

I could keep listing examples but I have to go online and figure out a new compact solution to be able to play my A/V/Live sets without using any of your horribly overpriced equipment because I will never, ever, EVER buy another Pioneer product in my life.

Sincerely,

ill.GATES

PS: Fuck you.

link Producer Dojo

I think hes right !

Serato released the latest version of SeratoDJ that fixes problems with Pio controllers so…

Btw, I’m still puzzled by the constant need for upgrading a OS on a DJ-ing laptop by mac users…seems that problems that come with it basically negate any benefit of using a mac in the first place

Thats a pretty intense letter. I use to love Pioneer. I took a long time away from music and then got my traktor set up with a S5 recently and now when I touch a cdj I dnt see the cost for the feel of the player. Its def a beast but yeah a pioneer tax has been added. Dont know whats up with the serato problem you have though. Hope it gets worked out.

I hate Pioneer, but being devils advocate, I dont think they should be forced to support Serato.

They are a software company now.

True, I never update anything unless it’s necessary for some software or hardware to work. Every DJ should do this IMO.
Do you know how to deal with the bugs you always encounter? Stick with them!

About Pioneer, I also think Ill Gates is right, Pioneer stuff is not stable since I don’t remember when.
Solution: use Traktor with external audio interface.

PS: Their mixers are good.

The only gripe I have with Pioneer is the cost of their CDJ’s.

If you’ve ever played on any other mixers you would think differently.

Old Vestax, Rane and Urei were all way better mixers.

A&H mixers are great as well I have had so many problems with my 900 its time to sell very soon I think.

So glad to see other people feel like I do about pio. Idk anything about serato , but screw pioneer. ugh.

same

I’ve played with others, A&H are the best ones IMO, but I still think Pio mixers are good.

That’s it, good, not excelent, and surely not cheap. They are overpriced good mixers IMO.

Being the industry standard, I have to like them, otherwise I would have to bring mixers to places which would be such a huge pain in the ass, or I would have to hate every single gig lol

I have been djing for going on 17 years now, started on belt drives, upgraded to 1210’s around the time cdjs just started to come through the market but never saw the appeal, i could never afford them anyway (still cant) then i started to use controllers and traktor so i kinda skipped the “pioneer / cdj revolution” i have to say im glad i did, besides owning a djm600 (which i still use but would give my left nut for an A&H mixer) the hype surrounding pioneer products has been lost on me and paying over 4-5k for an industry standard set up only highlights the monopoly they have generated in clubs and dj booths everywhere and its sad to see new djs coming through thinking they NEED this gear to play properly. Ill gates is right they have won, i agree with alot of what he is saying but i cant help but wonder if alot of the reason behind his letter stems from his fustration with the tech support, lets face it has anyone ever contacted tech support for anything and not been left fustrated? i remember almost being sedated and admitted to a mental asylum the last time my hoover broke

One thing I still don’t understand is the dimples on the CDJ platter.

Worst design ever. Are you supposed to put your fingertips in there?

All it does is create problems with pitch bending.

They are called jog wheels. Would you want to jog on a track full of potholes?

What you prefer is a gridded platter (like the Numark NS7) or goosebumps (like the Technics 1200).

I’m pretty happy with my DJM900 NXS. Not to say other companies don’t make better mixers, but I’ve had absolutely no issues with the mixer. It’s solid build-wise, has four tracks, phono inputs, meh effects. (but they do the trick when needed) It almost sounds like you’re implying Pio mixers are bad, which I don’t think is the case at all.

If I were to choose today, I’d probably go A & H, but you live and learn. Not a bad thing to say at all about the Pio.

Not bad. Overpriced and not as professional as they should be.

Absolutely, I can’t remeber a worse tech support team than Pioneer’s. It’s not because they don’t help you, it’s because they help you wrong.

lol true

Yes, definately not the case.

There are better mixers, but these Pios are everywhere… I’m not bringing no mixer to the gig!

Always preferred an A H 92 in the mixer world, as far as platter controllers go I don’t use any of them

Really good point. They have the size for a thumb, basically the finger (which is not not even a real finger anatomically :wink: ) that is the most inacurate. Pioneer has got that design since the 1000 mk1, since 2001. Would really like to hear the opinion of DJs that use that platter frequently what they think of these swales.

I’ve used them for a long time, they should have been made with some very high friction rubber, and no holes, just a flat rubber which would stick to your fingers no matter how oily they are.

That kind of coating/rubber tends to degrade pretty fast on hot/humid environments and it isn’t too being near the sea either. Not saying they can’t remove the holes (although they are pretty much a design icon at this point, just like Tech’s platter rim), just that switching the rubber to a higher friction one will also make them get dirty/degrade a LOT easier.