because I went offtopic with this in another thread…
what is it with all the hype around bridge anyway?
from the demonstrations I’ve seen so far it looks to me like bridge only works with sampled material - so if you have a melody or anything else that’s played live via MIDI, you can’t “touch” it with timecode because it would involve insane (more like impossible) amounts of (pre-)sampling…
what exactly are the advantages of bridge compared to, say, syncing a proper ableton liveset with traktor (which is ridiculously easy no matter if you do it manually or via MIDI)? can bridge do anything significant that the ableton + traktor combination can not? where exactly is the innovation? in order to properly control a liveset you need an additional controller next to your DJ setup anyway, so why not use it on a separate system altogether - especially regarding resources and redundance?
don’t misunderstand, I’m not hating - I just don’t see what’s so uber about it and maybe one of you can explain what I am missing.
(p.s.: I know about the mixtape feature so no need to bring that up)
For me the appeal is that i currently run serato into ableton (please don’t hate on me Traktor fans, i like the application but serato is back to the old skool and i have Ableton for warping/beatgridding stuff) and i see it as the way to sync both softwares together without the pressing of the nudge buttons constantly…
I’m stoked to see what it actually does as it’s been quite a while since we saw the demos…
S4racen, do you have to run Live out of a SSL channel and through an analogue mixer?
Excuse my ignorance on this one, but does SSL actually have an internal mix function? I looked through the documentation and as far as I can figure you ALWAYS have to use SSL with an analogue mixer.
If I am correct above. does the bridge now introduce internal mixing?
Well, we define first what is the Bridge and then we could take some conclusions.
The Bridge is:
-Two way communication audio tunnel (like rewire but full duplex)
-SSL and ITCH native control integrated inside Ableton Live and visualized at SSL frontend.
We could do/expect:
Transport control with timecode/Itch controllers.
Ableton Live as a third deck inside SSL/Itch.
Record anything done in SSL (with mixer with midi control from Rane) inside Ableton.
Feedback in SSL from Ableton (track name and so on).
Closed timing sync and optimized audioflow.
Native Control integration of third play in SSL (like Novation, Akai, …)
and maybe… use of other Ableton features with SSL (like maxforlive, plugins like looper and similar things).
Traktor is not so “deep” integration but it could be if someone write python remote Scripts for this “close” integration.
you mean: ssl, ableton and max/msp runtime running simultaneously on one machine without serious performance issues? very unlikely unless you’re using a bunch of short audio loops.
I still want to know what they have in mind for people whose livesets contain mainly MIDI clips and automations…
Well,
I’m only pointing possibilities… users will take the choice.
As a midi concern… transport control and control surfaces affects midi clips too. It could be possible play piano at hide Ableton trought SSL and (I hope) control Looper fx (o wathever) too…
Technically it is possible, practically we will see…
eh, isn’t that obvious? say you’re trying to scratch a midiclip with one short note and the synth playing it has a huge release. so the note gets played and now you want to drag it back to the beginning while doing a simple transformer and then baby-scratch it in again. won’t work - because the stuff played in “realtime” would have to be (p)resampled including all possible parameter tweaks (e.g. a filtersweep). I believe there’s no way to do that unless you invent a quantum computer.
Ok, this is the worst “Bridge” part. It doesn’t makes magic I know… but you could control transport control of these clips with turntable. This is a lot (for our context).
To give you a solution, I think Live Feed will be the (buffer) resampling deck. Route midi to it and record. Then scratch it.
surely not enough for me to switch from TSP + live to SSL + live… but like I said, I don’t want to bash stuff before it comes out. I’m only voicing my doubts, don’t let that spoil your anticipation
yeah, in the promo video they’re really acting as if bridge was the second coming of christ… but then maybe it does just what they wanted and they’re not saying this because they got paid so much - you never know. the only thing I know for sure is that I want more, but that’s perfectly normal for a gear whore
I use two laptops - one running live & maschine and the other one running TSP, they’re not synced but live does a little bit of communicating with TSP. too long to explain it all, let’s just say it does a good job - but it’s far from perfect and I’m still working on pushing it further…
Yes definetly they go HYPE. The Bridge is cool at last (and free, thanks) but is no other thing that I said before: some audio full duplex rewire and thight remote control throught Python and LiveApi. That’s all.
In near future it will be perfectly do the same with any DVS and remote scripting, taking profit over Serato work and it doesn’t give us scratchable warped clips (my wish better than midi scratch clips) and it is not about technical issue, it is develop issue.
I know how to go step forward in this but my mouth is closed.
Ideas have value and I pointed some good ones for free. Now it is time to shout out myself in some directions…
About your set…
Do you use maxforlive? TSP could send OSC and will be helpful in sync and other “bridgering” options…
yeah, I do. thanks for the hint, but I’m not too experienced with it yet, so I’m sure we can discuss this better in 2 or 3 months. I’ll definitely look into it (going to crossgrade to max/msp/jitter eventually)…
also, TSP is and always will be slaved to my liveset, not the other way round - and I like to do at least some things manually
DRTWT, but have I got it right that y’all think you can scratch clips?
My understanding was that the only control you have of Ableton is by way of MIDI/TTM57SL/Sixty-Eight, whereby you can navigate and launch clips.
I was under the impression that BY NO MEANS AT ALL could timecode vinyl/CD manipulate the clips, and that only Ms. Pinky and AmmoBox are capable of using timecode as transport for clips.
It was my belief that Bridge allows for remixing and whatnot, but otherwise you can’t do jack with the clips. If someone can show me a YouTube clip (pun intended) that states otherwise, it’d be greatly appreciated.
And Mixtape simply accepts automation from from SSL. Linefaders, crossfaders, gain, EQ: that sort of jazz. Allow you to edit your mixes or record fader movements from your scratches.
uh, then it would be even less interesting… because in this case I don’t see anything I couldn’t already do with my rig. hm. perhaps it’s cool for dropping acapellas and whatnot on top of a mix without the hassle of beatmatching them manually, but then again you’d have to have your music collection analyzed perfectly for sync to work - and that is where ssl/itch is clearly inferior to traktor.
good thing you mentioned ms.pinky though, I haven’t tested it in M4L yet but in theory it should be possible to do some proper crazy shit with it that will have to wait for the semester break though.
And add LiveApi remote control scripting (like Launchpad, Apc40 and The Bridge) and/or maxforlive (special Api blablablah).
You could do the same that Rane hardware (in midi automatization way) with regular midi hardware, the same for clip launching and blinking leds. You don’t need expensive gear for this…
Ammobox can trigger their OWN loaded samples by midi. Not transport control.
Ms. Pinky could scratch the source audio files from audio clips (not warped or modified material yet due to Live limitations) and load these audio triggering the clip matrix (ammobox paradigm upgraded)
I’m not sure what do you want to see… Bridge demo showing clips scratching? It is not possible with Bridge but you could use Live transport as a deck inside SSL. Clarify me please and if I have the link I will put it here.
And it could be done with any midi hardware and upgraded so easy and make it a bit powerfull… but these will be at Bridge 2.0 or Ms. Pinky 2012.
that will have to wait for the semester break though.