First controller..Do I really need jog wheels?

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
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First controller..Do I really need jog wheels?

Hello DJTT,

I’m completely new to all of this and I’m looking for a low end controller to get into mixing, learning the software, finding my style, and overall just having fun as a hobby.
I have a few questions about choosing a controller that I’m hoping to get some feedback on…Pardon my lack of terminology here.

I’m very interested in mixing pieces of tracks with others, using samples and incorporating effects, playing with loops and so forth..Seems like this is pretty much the standard idea with the DJ controllers but I want to focus more on effects and cutting/slicing, and juggling, over just blending from song to song, and I really don’t care to get into scratching…Again I don’t plan to play at clubs or any kind of sponsored events, just in my own home or maybe at a friends house with a few people.

Here’s what I was looking at:
Numark Mixtrack Pro and an Akai Professional LPD8 (promotion to get a free upgrade from Serato Intro to DJ w/ these on Numarks site right now) or a Numark Mixtrack Pro 2
Vestax VCI-100
Reloop Mixage IE
Novation Twitch

I like the idea of the Twitch and if I don’t plan to get into scratching, do I really need jog wheels? Is the Twitch really better for what I’m looking to do? (around $300 or less budget)
Any advice or other recommendations would be much appreciated!

Thanks DJTT,
BSudz

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Hello, I personally own a Kontrol S2, I only use Jogwheel for Transport and Grid Marker Adjust in Traktor Pro 2.6. If you really don’t need Jogwheel for JogwheelFX, Scratch, Transport or Grid Adjust I would recommend Twitch, ( never pu my hands on it ), instead If you think you need it I would recommend Native Instrument or Vestax stuff, not really convinced by Reloop & Numark low price stuff, feel to cheap to me.

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I thought I would need jog wheels, but I’m finding that you can easily pitch bend with buttons and whatnot.

The jog wheels aren’t really for scratching anyways. I can recommend Denon MC-3000. You can get it for ~270 new from eBay.

Feels solid, and the faders feel AMAZING.

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As the resident Reloop whore here, I’ll throw in my 2c on the Mixage.

It’s “okay”, but you’ll get pissed off with its limitations VERY quickly. Like all sub-£200 controllers, it’s very limited in terms of its actual controls. No cuepoint buttons, smaller faders, although it DOES have some rather nice additions like gain and filter knobs for each channel, and the loop functionality is up there with the big boy controllers like the TM4 and the Jockey 3.

Physically, its got the same build as the Terminal Mix and Jockey range; kinda a combination of the two. It lacks the square pads of the Contour and J3ME, and instead uses the rounded transport buttons from the TM2/TM4, and the same hard plastic loop/cue buttons also.

It’s kind a weird mishmash of the two ranges, but all in all its not a bad little controller. The audio interface is pretty good as well, although due to the price it only offers a single unbalanced master output. It DOES have a microphone input and headphone output as well, although I’m not sure if the mic input is routed through Traktor or directly mixed with the master out (I’d guess the latter, as typically Reloop doesn’t include any inputs in their audio interfaces, with the exception of the Jockey 3).

The jogwheels are the same as the ones used on the Contour, and are VERY nice.

The main area where it falls down is the lack of FX control, which - in my opinion - is a necessity in this day and age. If it was me, I’d get the Mixage IE for transport and EQ, and a single Contour CE for dedicated FX/cuepoint control. By creating your own mappings, you’d wind up with a VERY flexible setup for minimal costs.

EDIT: Just to add, the Reloop is by FAR the sturdiest of the options you’ve listed. It’s got all-metal construction for the chassis and top plate, and all the PCBs inside are mounted directly to the metal chassis… you could literally drop it off your desk and just go, “oh well” and carry on mixing, provided you didn’t yank the cables out in the process.

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As a vci 100 user and reloop contour owner I can say the vci100 is built like a tank where as the contour being all metal feels a bit more like a well built car than a tank.

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Yeah, I can’t really comment on the VCI-100 but if I recall correctly it’s metal construction as well. I’m really not a fan of the asymmetric design though.

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APC40 + Audio 2?

It Includes Ableton live lite which IMHO is easier to pop together a mashup set with ease as you just need to adjust the start point of the tracks on the grid and can have 100’s of sample clips available at any given time.

And lite has ample tools/effects to put down a decent set like you describe, and in a better (IMHO) way than traditional “dj software” - of course the full version has more tools,but you are starting off.

You should be able to pick up the pair @ less than $300, and you can always map the APC to the full version of Traktor you’ll get as well.

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I agree. Asymmetry pains me on a deep level. I’ve adored all of my Reloop controllers. Ive never owned a contour though but I am seriously considering it as an addition.

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You don’t need them if you’re sure about what you want from a controller, and ive never really heard anyone complain about using the strip on the Twitch to navigate a track. However, it does help to have them over nothing at all, as they make navigating tracks so much easier.

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Of all the gear I’ve owned/used, I’ve never used something as intuitive for FX and cuepoints as the Contour. Considering how cheap they are, if you haven’t already got one, it’s WELL worth picking one up :slight_smile:

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yeah, i have been pitchbending with buttons now too, but honestly i cant say its as fun forsure.
thinking about switchign to some sort of dvs setup…

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I vote for the Denon MC 3000.

Inexpensive high quality feature packed controller that’s Traktor ready.

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Thanks for all the responses and suggestions.
As for knowing exactly what I want or don’t want with the jog wheels..I’m not exactly sure of their full capabilities since I’m new to all of this.

At the 7:00 min mark of Ean’s video here is the kind of mixing I’m interested in learning.

I know he uses his jog wheel a good amount but I think he’s got it remapped as an fx fader if I’m not mistaken? Given my budget of around $300ish, which controller would be easiest for me to learn and perform this style of mixing?
Would the Twitch offer any advantages or ease of learning with its layout over a standard controller with jog wheels? or vice versa?

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I picked up a Novation Twitch as my first ever controller. I sounded exactly like you did when I was first getting into mixing. I cant speak for any of the other controllers but with my hours upon hours of use with the Twitch I am still to this day learning new tricks on it (had it for over a year). I would say I play on a pretty consistent basis if not every day then every other and it has yet to let me down. Although now that I understand a lot more when it comes to the art of mixing I am now wanting to upgrade from my Twitch. As a beginners tool to what I would consider myself as an amatuer the Twitch has been there for me from day one and I wouldnt have chose a different controller to start out on.

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If you have any questions regarding the Twitch man feel free to to ask away!

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Thanks for the feedback! Have you ever thought that having jog wheels would make things easier for on the fly or do the slide pads work well enough?
Now that you understand more about mixing, what do you feel limited with on the Twitch?

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If 300 bucks is your budget, Denon MC3000! It’s the best controller w/ jog wheels IMO. Next closest thing will be the Traktor S2, but that’s over the budget, and it doesn’t have filter knobs and it’s plastic.

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In some instances I def. feel that the jog wheels would make things easier for on the fly such as beatmatching. Although with the touchstrip i’m able to use the drop function which allows you to move directly to the section of the song you would like to be at. For instance if you want to go to the middle of the track you hit the drop button and then touch directly in the middle of the touchstrip and it will take you to the middle of the track. Although you may not touch exactly dead center where you would want to be. If your a little before you can either use the touchstrip to slide to the exact point or play that track in your headphones and pause it once you get to that point.

Limitation wise one being four deck control. In Traktor you are able to use four decks but I would really like to have EQ’s for each deck without having to share them amongst 2 decks. I also picked up a Midi fighter Spectra to help with this limitation but I really hated the effects only being able to be used via one knob or the fader. I would have liked it more if the Twitch had the ability to add another banking to use the buttons for FX as well. Hence why I got the Spectra (got the Spectra for more then just that but thats a whole nother story)

These two limitations arent deal breakers by any means and theres other little things I can nit pick about like the sound output (which isnt horrible but not awesome) I’m still able to rock a house party or my studio via my KRK’s without having the output set to max

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I have questions about the Twitch. I assume you’re using Traktor.

Where did you map the filter knob?

Can you use the touchstrip to pitch bend accurately?

I assume the Tempo knob controls the pitch slider.
Do you like the tempo knob vs a true pitch slider?

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These videos are exactly what inspired me to start DJing. Here’s something I wish someone had told me when I first started: You will never get booked to do that kind of thing, and nobody will ever realyl care about it outside of youtube. It’s great for youtube videos etc. but unless you get famous as a producer and do it nobody will ever care about you doing it in a live setting. (do NOT fucking bring up Madeon again, I swear to god)

Performance stuff like that is something you do mostly for yourself. If your dream is to learn to do that stuff to play for yourself in your house, then buy whatever controller you like, and do awesome performance DJing. If you want to learn to play for people, you need to learn the traditional side of DJing, mixing tracks into a set for people to dance to. For this you do need jogwheels. Not because you need them for a practical reason, but because nobody will ever book you for any meaningful gig if you’re not capable of claiming that you’re beatmatching. It sucks, but that’s how it is.