Thoughts about the "Dubstep 70 Bpm or 140 Bpm" discussion

Thoughts about the “Dubstep 70 Bpm or 140 Bpm” discussion

Something I come across a lot on the internet, especially DJ related forums or youtube, is the discussion about the BPM of dubstep songs.

Generally with dance music we tend to count the tempo of the song based upon the kick, and if we listen to the kick placements in a dubstep song then yes we would conclude that the tempo would fall in somewhere around 70 bpm.

However, would we count the highhats or the wobbles, we could find ourselves counting in at 140bpm.

Now, which one of these should we use to determine the tempo and why should we even care if its 140 or 70 bpm since it doesn’t really make any difference? It’s just half or double the time it takes for us to count 1-2-3-4?

Doesn’t really matter, really, but 140 does give us more precision. Think of it this way; the difference between 70bpm and 72bpm equals difference between 140bpm and 144bpm, in the long run quite a huge difference. In the same way, 70.1 is a bigger step than 140.1. 140bpm gives us more precision when doing fine-adjustments to tempo than 70bpm.

It also decides wheter we count 8 bars or 16 bars, so if I think the song goes in 142bpm and you say its 71bpm and you try to describe to me how you plan to do this really really cool transition between song A and song B, 4 bars after that fat bassdrop in the middle of the song, I would not go and listen 4 bars after but 2 bars after the drop, since my bar is twice as fast as yours (My bar going in 142bpm while yours is in 71bpm)

One of the main reasons I think people tend to get confused with dubstep, I think, is due to the half-time feel of the drumbeat. Instead of looping a single bar, producers usually let the beat make its way through 2 bars before starting over again, and by that time the highhats and wobbles have looped two times (depending on the song, of course, sometimes the entire song is going to feel half-time and then it practically IS in the 70bpm range).

In music theory we all know what 4/4 means. We count one bar as 4 quarter notes. One Two Three Four, easy enough! What I described before would put the drums in a 8/4 time signature, as that is a bar that is twice as long as a bar with the 4/4 time signature. We would count 8 quarter notes as a bar in 8/4 which is the same as a 4/4 bar half the tempo. Imagine that the drums are in 8/4, and that the highhats and melodies are in 4/4. One bar of the drums would equal 2 bars of the highhats and melodies. Confusing? Yes, but its also one of the reasons dubstep is so head-nod friendly.

Something similair occours with certain styles of Drum and Bass, where the tempo would be up at 160-170 bpm. The break would be up there, and the bass too, but sometimes it feels like the atmosphere is actually a lot slower than the rest of the elements, checking in at the 80-85bpm range instead. The breakbeat would loop twice before anything would happen up in the atmospheres and pads, so say that theres some chordprogressoin going on. If you listen to a DnB track you might hear the chords changing every two breakbeat-loops. Remove those breakbeats and suddenly you’re left with a pretty slow and mellow song. Just as with dubstep, I think this is one of the things that gives the genre some of its charm, the contrast between the energy and speed of the elements. Its like driving really fast down a road, everything just next to you will be racing by quicker than you can register it, but towards the horizon and above your head clouds and the distand background would just jog along in a slow tempo.

The same time happens with dubstep, remove those wobbles and atmosphere from the kick and the snare and suddenly it might sound like its half the tempo it was with the whole package running.

Nothing revolutionary and probably not entirely correct, but theres some food for thought!

:disappointed:

i hope you didnt type all that.

theres a (long) thread about this. maybe we can merge? mods?

if it makes you feel better; i read all that

oh god ..

It’s 140 bpm, but really who cares?

There is no need for discussion really…

Dubstep is circa 140bpm, as it has been for the last 10 years…

D&B is circa 170bpm, 20 years and counting!

These aren’t really the newest kids on the block - only since the era of the ‘internet forum’ have I even heard anyone suggest differently…it’s as simple as letting yourself tap the tempo in time with the feel of the music - you’ll magically be tapping along at 140 or 170!

*all numeric values contained in this post are approximate

+1

dance music is conventionally counted in 4/4. so taking that as our assumption, its 70bpm full-time or 140bpm half-time. it’s that simply really. as far as things like ‘what should i beatgrid my dubstep tracks to?’, i do it to 140 cause it makes a 1/32th beatmash effect more awesome than if I beatgrid it to 70bpm. also, the other elements of the track certanly shouldn’t ‘seem’ like a specific bpm. if they do, i think that’s your brain tricking you.

and it makes the transition from 130ish electro much easier..

this.. its 70 bpm.. BEATS PER MINUTE! ..not beats per 2 min..

Dubstep

Drum & Bass

Although quite a bit of dubstep features some half-time drums, there’s almost always some element at full-time. This explains why you are bobbing around to dubstep a lot quicker than you are bobbing around to hip-hop for example - the tempo is quicker. Follow your body.

lol @ “138-142” then the example is CLEARLY @ 70 bpm
I’ll give you that some of the more hype tunes could possibly be considered 140, because the pulse is actually 140 (the drums are still @ 70)
BUT that example is definitely 70 bpm lmao

if you think dubstep is 140 and not 70 then you also must think drumstep is slower than dubstep?
and that drum and bass is actually @ 340 and not 170?

No. The tempo (or bpm if you will) of a track is not solely defined by the drum hits you leave in (or even by the drum hits you leave out).

When you tap along to the song, you should ‘automagically’ find yourself tapping crotchet beats. It’s just what humans do. When I tap along to dubstep, I tap at 140bpm. When I tap to d&b, I tap at 170bpm. It’s natural. It’s how I feel the music - 140bpm.

So do my peer group of DJs that I know (even the ones that hate dubstep). So do the written sources that I find, the dubstep tutorials online, the pre-made loops you get free with Computer Music. So do the music websites that tag the BPM of tracks before downloading.

You’re not alone though - about 1 in 5 DJs seem to agree with you:

It may just be an argument about semantics but dubstep didn’t magically appear one day, ready formed and ready to go with the half-step sparsity that is presently bothering MTV; there used to be a whole lot more going on, beats wise…

I guess it doesn’t matter that much (from a DJ perspective) as long as you are consistent. I quite often mix dubstep into breaks and vice versa so I stick to 140bpm. Plus I prefer the way my 3/8 delays etc sound at 140bpm.

If you are mixing dubstep into other 70bpm genres (really really slow hiphop springs to mind and… nothing else) then yeah, stick with 70bpm.

the same websites that think 1B and 7A are keys :roll_eyes:
so do you think hiphop is 160-200?
or drum and bass is 85 bpm?
I usually tap my foot at 85 bpm when listening to dnb and I’m sure a lot of people do.. so what makes it 170 and not 85?

the tempo is BEATS PER MINUTE.
dubstep follows the same rhythmic structure as the rest of western music
dubstep is 70bpm.. count for yourself!

Edit: I beat grid at 140.. I’m just saying conventionally its 70 :stuck_out_tongue:

i use it at 140 purely for mixing purposes, mixing electro is easier to mix then going from 128-130 to 70

@amidoinitrite… we’re going to have to disagree old chap. If I was asked to fill in a dubstep track with 4/4 kicks I’d put down 140 a minute. D&B 170. We obviously ‘feel’ these things in a different way

safe.. I get what you’re saying.
It would no longer be dubstep and have the dubstep feel..
lol.. but then again most of more comercial “dubstep” tunes don’t have the same feel anyway.

I will give you Skrillex and the like could pass as 140.. because thats basically what brostep is.. drums are still 70 but the vibe is 140.. thats what I meant earlier when I said hype tunes.. the new comercial stuff

I was referring to artists like Mala, distance, coki, etc.. dubstep being 70

I can’t stand Skrillex.

I was gonna say ‘of course, the 4/4 was was to illustrate the tempo thing, 4/4 dubstep would sound RIDICULOUS’ until I remembered artists like Martyn, who fuse techno with dubstep. Martyn rocks.

If you listen to some of Martyn’s techno/dubstep crossover thingy mixes then the kick would represent the BPM counting in my brain - I can’t help it.

That got me thinking about dubstep and the reggae rhythm. Dubstep accents the 3rd beat of the bar like most reggae/dub styles - if you are counting at 140. So I guess that naturally ‘aspirates’ me towards that too - with the snare on the 3.

Also, look at this tutorial from soundonsound; they are using 140bpm - note even with ‘half-time’ rhythms they still putting the hats and percussion on sixteenths at 140.

Talking of Mala, he’s got this to say about the music he produces:
‘I still think there’s a lot to experiment with, with 140, with that tempo. I think it’s very open as a tempo, there’s a huge amount of possibility, and I just think that unfortunately sometimes people get a little lazy and they just stick with things that they know that work and so you end up with inevitably being inundated and saturated with a lot of stuff that sounds pretty similar, pretty similar groove and pretty similar frequency. Which is a shame, because I think the 140 tempo is so open, and you just gotta dig a little bit deeper inside the groove, you know what I mean?’

my respect*for you has increased significantly**:wink:

half time 140.. which is 70
I get what you’re saying tho..

but.. do you hear the first Kick and snare to be 1 bar?
I don’t. IMO.. if you’re talking western theory, dubstep is 70bpm

Yes, I guess so, even if the beat is abstracted with lots of hits ‘left out’. I’m sure there is a limit though…

Take drumstep. I haven’t heard much of it at all, but the stuff I have heard is very much regimented (as in there aren’t any or very very few 1/32 beat syncopations to be heard). The timbre and instrumentation is very reminiscent of d&b, so much so that I’m actually anticipating d&b, but without ornamentation it sounds to me stuck at 85/90bpm.

Dubstep, on the other hand, always (to me) has some skip in the beat, busy percussion or rhythm in the bassline (explicit or implied) that makes me feel the higher BPM. This is what I feel to be the ‘defining’ feature of dubstep rather than enormous basslines and slappy beats. I actually prefer the more cerebral stuff like Pangea tbh and this sort of stuff demonstrates that the sonic palette of Dubstep is more varied than yer average brostep.

Horses for courses I guess - certainly enough of a duality to make this quite a common discussion anyway!

When programming this type music your sequencer will always be 140 bpm + you will never get the level of note detail at 90 bpm sorry! Jazz theory is what you need to look at ! for djing purposes do what you must!

Lethal_ Pizzle ftw!